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Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
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 Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:14 pm Post subject: Injuries |
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For the game I'm currently designing, I'm thinking of eliminating hit points entirely for an injury system. Basically, whenever you get hit you get an injury. Injuries vary be location and severity. Injuries on the same location are combined, so if you already have a moderate injury on your left and you get another, they would combine to form a single severe injury.
Each injury reduces your combat effectiveness. If your right arm is injured, you can no longer swing your weapon as effectively. If your leg is injured, you can no longer run. Head and torso injuries can lead to death. In addition, all injuries can lead to infection if they are not properly treated.
In general, injuries only heal with resting. Magical healing of some kind is available, but it is quite limited in effectiveness.
So what does this mean in terms of gameplay? The main effect will be that even monsters who are no match for the party will be able to cause serious damage. The goal of combat will change from "win" to "win without taking injuries". The game won't necessarily be any more difficult - after all, the game is balanced for the combat system - but it won't be divided into difficult combat and trivial combat. Combat will never be trivial.
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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very cool i must say. I remember when people tried to use such a thing for table-top RPG's, and that didn't work well because it slowed down combat. But, with the computer taking all the slow-down out (ie: performs the calculations instantly...instead of roll-die for hit area, roll-die for dammage to hit area, roll imparative dammage, etc etc) so this ocul be very unique and realistic. Just make sure it's intuitive and smooth. A good way is in the inventory system have an Ultima6/7 style "Paper Doll" with injuries shown in the correct spot. In order to heal you would have to choose the location to heal.
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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
Location: Location:
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Have you ever played bushido blade? You can get a leg cut off, then you crawl on the floor swinging your sword... very realistic and fun game. I want to buy it, but it's really rare. I'd have to see the implementation of your system before I can say I like it, because injuries to a common man and injuries to an rpg character are basically varied by a 10:1 ratio, heh. Infections would just suck for the player, unless healing it is easy and convenient. "Walking back to the town, you get gangrene (sp?) an die. Game over." "SHIT!" Anyway, maybe there should be some kind of panacea to prevent all infections of any kind o_O.
*Whack*
You lost your hand
*Whack*
You lost your forearm
*Whack*
You lost your shoulder
*Whack*
There go your nuts
Ya... just wanted to give a demonstration of beating your arm down to a nub fairly quickly.
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mandrake*rpgdx
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, but replace uber-hitpoints and dammage absorption of normal RPG's with parrrying and blocking....not only more realistic now, but strategy involved as well....
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Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Infections are just another negative status effect. They won't kill you instantly, but they do force you to return to town. The plan is that characters will become useless in combat long before they die.
I was planning on making blocking and parrying a major aspect of combat. Of course it's nearly impossible to block a rear attack, so maneuvering will have a major effect on combat. A surrounded character is a dead character. This goes for the monsters too, BTW.
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Ironshanks
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Shiner's Peak
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'd just avoid snakes...I mean really, snakes would be bad.
Sounds like a cool idea, I'd be impressed to see it pulled off well.
_________________
That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.
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Jihgfed Pumpkinhead
Stephen Hawking
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 259
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 12:59 am Post subject: Preliminary Thoughts on Deyke's Damage System |
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I wanted to do something like this, but then I thought: "Hmm, gee, this looks like a lot of work." So I didn't.
| Rainer Deyke wrote: | | The game won't necessarily be any more difficult - after all, the game is balanced for the combat system - but it won't be divided into difficult combat and trivial combat. Combat will never be trivial. |
Yes, this is why I wanted to include a system in which all damage was potentially lethal damage. Combat in RPGs just feels so de rigeur. In my opinion, combat should in all (almost all) cases be vicious and painful for both sides. There is a reason it's called "mortal combat", after all.
What you might want to avoid, though, is the general wimpiness that could come with this; you know, where the player's not willing to go out too far from the town and doctor until he's levelled up drastically enough that nothing's a threat, anymore. Do you plan on avoiding this, somehow?
There simply must be the possibility of emergency camp-fire cauterization.
The problem I can see with a strict locational damage system is that a severe injury to one part often doesn't affect the other parts at all. It's rather odd to think of the PC wandering around with one arm ripped off, but otherwise right-as-rain. Some games use a Stamina (ST)/HP system, where certain actions, anything that requires an extreme taxing of bodily and mental resources, lower stamina, as do combat wounds (this is the system I'm using). I think a general ST / locational HP system would work very well. Every wound would lower ST to a degree based on the wound's severity; the loss of ST wouldn't reflect damage so much as pain, and it would impair the character's general proficiency rather than anything specific.
Nice things about ST: infection and poison work much better: they're just a gradually-increasing loss of ST. Magical restoratives can heal ST simply, but not HP, restoring functionality but leaving the sense of danger which should come with being heavily damaged unimpaired.
Of course, the problem is that it makes a complex system even more complex. Oh, well, your call.
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Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Preliminary Thoughts on Deyke's Damage System |
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| Jihgfed Pumpkinhead wrote: |
What you might want to avoid, though, is the general wimpiness that could come with this; you know, where the player's not willing to go out too far from the town and doctor until he's levelled up drastically enough that nothing's a threat, anymore. Do you plan on avoiding this, somehow?
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I have two mechanisms in mind for avoiding this. One is that combat will be relatively rare. The player doesn't have to wade through hundreds of random encounters, all of them potentially lethal, just to get to an even more dangerous boss fight. There might be five battles in a typical trip to the local dungeon. By the time the party has taken serious cumulative damage, they're likely near the end of the dungeon anyway. Might as well go forward - the way back isn't any safer. This is assuming that the player hasn't made any major tactical blunders.
The other mechanism that the player simply won't have the opportunity to level up enough to become invincible. The player will never become invincible. However, even just leveling up will be tricky business. I'm thinking of tying random encounters to the reputation system. After the player has butchered 10 brigands, the remaining brigands will know better than to attack the player - or worse, they'll attack in very large groups. The easiest way for the player to become more powerful just might be to go through that dugeon and grab the magic sword at the end.
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There simply must be the possibility of emergency camp-fire cauterization.
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Sounds fun, although I'm not sure I'll go into that level of detail.
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The problem I can see with a strict locational damage system is that a severe injury to one part often doesn't affect the other parts at all. It's rather odd to think of the PC wandering around with one arm ripped off, but otherwise right-as-rain. Some games use a Stamina (ST)/HP system, where certain actions, anything that requires an extreme taxing of bodily and mental resources, lower stamina, as do combat wounds (this is the system I'm using). I think a general ST / locational HP system would work very well. Every wound would lower ST to a degree based on the wound's severity; the loss of ST wouldn't reflect damage so much as pain, and it would impair the character's general proficiency rather than anything specific.
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I was planning on having a stamina system anyway, but I hadn't thought of tying it to the damage system. On one hand it makes sense, on the other hand it may be too harsh. I'll have to give this more thought.
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Nice things about ST: infection and poison work much better: they're just a gradually-increasing loss of ST. Magical restoratives can heal ST simply, but not HP, restoring functionality but leaving the sense of danger which should come with being heavily damaged unimpaired. |
That makes sense. Poison and sickness will definitely drain stamina.
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Ironshanks
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Shiner's Peak
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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For something like this I'd really suggest skill based levelling. I think it would fit better in general.
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That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.
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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
Location: Location:
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at these new ideas you have, it seems like it would take me 50 hours to reach level 15. Also, when trying to level up, the encounters would be so rare you'd have to wander around for a long time to join a battle that may not be worth fighting... maybe you could sell some kind of pheramone or something to make things attack you o_O
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madqb at school
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, this system sounds really cool to me. I'd like to get away from the traditional, "120 HP" and "50 Defense" type of games, where HP and defense really don't matter a whole lot. This system you are making, makes it possible for the player to become skillful, or... basically die.
I have one question/suggestion though. I would really hate to see a system like this go to waste on complete randomness. Is the hit determination, or location of the hit determination random? Like, any attack can hit anywhere randomly, thats not what I would like to see. Rather certain attacks are aimed at certain places, and until the player blocks the attack, it will hit that place and damage it, unless of course the enemy misses. I mean, random is ok, but aimed is better.
Other than that it really does sound cool.
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mandrake@work
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at these new ideas you have, it seems like it would take me 50 hours to reach level 15. Also, when trying to level up, the encounters would be so rare you'd have to wander around for a long time to join a battle that may not be worth fighting... maybe you could sell some kind of pheramone or something to make things attack you o_O
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Or maybe, levelling up isn't that important? I really think games whouls move past the levelling up premise.
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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
Location: Location:
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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But... but......... I LIKE leveling up.... :'(
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Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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- Becoming more powerful will be a major part of the game.
- The fastest way to become powerful will be completing quests, not beating up random monsters.
- Character advancement will be skill-based, not level-based.
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Ironshanks
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Shiner's Peak
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Yay! heh.
When fighting scorpians, where lots of leg armour :)
_________________
That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.
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