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Jihgfed Pumpkinhead Stephen Hawking
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 259 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 11:57 pm Post subject: Criticism of Nonlinearity Article |
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Fishing for comments and criticism on Nonlinearity and RPGs; but if I don't get any, that's okay too. If there's something with which you disagree, though, please do try to change my mind before the thing gets set in stone (i.e., I stop bothering to update it). Thanks.
---- EDIT ----
I moved the article, and so I've just changed the link accordingly.
Last edited by Jihgfed Pumpkinhead on Sun May 11, 2003 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nephilim Mage
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Posts: 414
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Well, one thing I thought you could include in the "list of nonlinearity types" would be the case where a story was nonlinear, but deviating significantly from a particular thread would end your game. (If you've ever seen the trinity "Restore / Restart / Quit", you know the syndrome of which I speak.)
This is an enlightening case to consider, because the primary game mechanic is that the player is faced with a nonlinear game, and his goal is to experience the game as a linear one. Straying from "the path" promptly puts a stop to the game, so he finds himself playing the game over and over, each time trying to retrace the same linear path up to the point where his last game ended, and then try something else.
This is therefore an inherently different game mechanic, because it overtly encourages the player to distance himself from the game world by requiring next-play strategies in order to succeed. In other words, getting the most out of the game involves thinking about "Okay, the next time I die, I'll try this other thing." Clearly, this is not what is going through the hapless avatar's head, so it has ramifications for role-playing as well as in-game strategy.
I don't think anyone views this as the greatest game mechanic any more, but it's useful as a touchstone to illustrate why other mechanisms have emerged, such as "the player cannot take any action that would prevent the plot from advancing" or "omnipresent guardian angel snatches you from the jaws of death every time and takes you back to a safe place in the plot". Could be helpful to explain some concept by juxtaposition.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to reading the whole article. Keep up the good work. I'm especially interested in hearing about development and design strategies for the modular game plot idea you presented, especially postmortem-style things you've learned while pursuing it.
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Bjorn Demon Hunter
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 1425 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Overall, nice start! In the case where it doesn't matter in which order certain parts of the game are completed, you might also consider this figure:
(Needs a browser with transparency support to look nice. Sadly, the most popular browser in the world is also the only browser not supporting transparent images.)
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Rainer Deyke Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Posts: 672
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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You state that gameplay is unrelated to story. While this is true in your trivial example, it does not have to be so. Gameplay = game mechanics + victory condition, and the victory condition is determined by the story. In a non-linear game, it can be up to the player to decide which ending conditions are desirable and which are not. This decision can only be made on the story level. The story therefore drives the gameplay by providing the victory condition.
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Jihgfed Pumpkinhead Stephen Hawking
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 259 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sat May 10, 2003 9:39 pm Post subject: Responses to Criticism |
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Nephilim wrote: | Well, one thing I thought you could include in the "list of nonlinearity types" would be the case where a story was nonlinear, but deviating significantly from a particular thread would end your game. |
I'm not sure exactly... do you mean like the old Sierra adventure games? If you could point me towards a game of the type you mean, I'd be grateful. I'd like the article to be as comprehensive as I can make it.
This makes me think I should probably have examples for all the types I give too; but the problem is I don't know which RPGs can be considered canonical. Any suggestions, anyone?
Bjørn wrote: | In the case where it doesn't matter in which order certain parts of the game are completed, you might also consider this figure: |
I certainly will use it, thank you; the only problem is that it's too nice and will make all the other diagrams look bad. Really, though, the use of arrows is much better than the use of lines, so I think it would be nice if I retooled all my other diagrams using the arrows in yours. Would you mind if I did?
Rainer Deyke wrote: | You state that gameplay is unrelated to story. While this is true in your trivial example, it does not have to be so. |
Grr... you spoiled my big finale! I'm sorry, though: I stated a general rule as an absolute one. I should have said something like "in traditional, linear game blah blah blah", and then gone on to the exception nonlinear games present to that rule. The thing was that I wanted to wait before writing the nonlinear bit until I had written about it more in the earlier sections; but the last section, (which, actually, is going to be all about the strange intersection of story and gameplay forced by nonlinearity) is the one in which I'm most interested, so I was a little over-eager to get to it.
So, ugh, you're perfectly right. I think I'll remove what I've done on that section until I'm better able to place it in context. Sorry about that, and thanks.
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Nephilim Mage
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Posts: 414
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2003 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Well, any game in which you often reach "game over" by making the wrong choice could potentially fall into this category. A lot of early text adventures (like "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" or "Suspended") would do this, as would later games like some of the King's Quest style games (the Indiana Jones one comes to mind).
These are not strictly RPG's, I guess, depending on your definition, but certainly examples of a nonlinear gameplay mechanic that has ramifications on design and player experience.
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Bjorn Demon Hunter
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 1425 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sun May 11, 2003 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Jihgfed, I'm not sure how you are planning to use my arrows (heh, they're just arrows) in your other pictures, but of course you can. I guess indeed I made the picture too nice to be used directly, but maybe you can get the idea across using the same style of the other pics. When I later thought about this picture though, it came to me that it was really a subset of what you define as order based. My picture just makes it more explicit that the order really doesn't matter, but I guess in most games it does matter. Like in Megaman, the player will own different weapons when he has beaten different enemies.
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