[resle]

Ok, probably all of you played that (undeniably) milestone that Ultima VII is. Ultima VII's world was real-time, everything flew around you even if you didn't move at all, differently from Ultima VI and every other rpg. This brought to a realtì-time combat system as well. Ultima VII's combat system has been blamed practically by everyone as the weak point of the game, as probably it is the weak point of most modern rpg worlds.

Ultima IX, Neverwinter nights, Dungeon siege... the real time combat system just doesn't work, in my opinion. It's nice to see, but that atmosphere that accompanied battles is lost. I can clearly remember, for example, Daemon's Winter: lost in some part of the huge world, my thirst of exploration brought me to face monsters that were far too strong for my poor party - yet with accurate strategy I could win, now and then. The feeling, the fullfillment, was incredible.

I get to the point: the rpg I am coding, is definitely realtime, and the world isn't a "bird-eye" view, it is (see this thread: http://forums.rpgdx.net/viewtopic.php?p=6725#6725) detailed and deep. So I'd like the battles to be turn-based, but how? I can't stop everything, make a "you encountered 4 kobolds and 1 ogre" message appear, and bring the characters in a temporary arena to fight. The solution I've conjectured so far is: the world is realtime, but when you get very near a certain monster, time freezes and you go into combat (turn-based) mode until slay all the nearest creatures.

Yet, it doesn't satisfy me... any idea? Thanks in advance.
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...so we ate rare animals, we spent the night eating rare animals...

[ThousandKnives]

[valderman]

Do it the Chrono Trigger way - thebest battle mode there is (except Zelda-style).
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[resle]

Describe it please, I didn't play a singer CT episode.
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...so we ate rare animals, we spent the night eating rare animals...

[resle]

[white_door]

personally I like the fact that the combat styles in different RPGs are different. the only thing I hate is the way so many games just copy the last style instead of thinking of something original..

To be honest though... fully realtime can get a little hectic and it is nice to be able to pause at any moment and still issue your next orders.

Infinity Engine games (BG, P:T, IWD.. etc..) had the options to make the game act just like a turn based game by pausing automatically at all the key moments, but I found it was enough just be able to hit [space] and still have access to all the controls and items and stuff. NWN also included this option. Granted it doesn't work for multiplayer, but then I always perfer single player gaming.

Crono Trigger was cool in that it the background and creatures didn't change [much] when combat started but the characters stood their ground and pulled out the weapons and it switched to turn based with the combat menu poping up. Where as Star Ocean used realtime combat but it switched to a seperate battle map area.

I think in some parts of one snes game I played (can't recall the name) you could see a party of monsters as a single creature (walking in the room) and if you walked in to them, it switched to combat mode. Romancing Saga 3, maybe?

I think seeing the enemies around you does make a game seem more populated. Which can add to the atmosphere of a game. ;) One issue though is without a seperate battle view.. it makes random combat more difficult to do.. you can't just blur the screen and start a battle you... you must place the enemies down somewhere on the map ahead of the player.

[ThousandKnives]

[Locrian]

If you want to go real time you could still force a battle on the player by having enemies off screen that have a larger than normal line of sight. When the player enters line of sight you could have the enemy's speed sped up so that it can get close to the player and the player can't outrun it and just run away. Sort of like a charge or "rushing" action for the enemy. As soon as the enemy gets within X distance from the player it switches to combat mode and resumes its normal speed whatever that may be. Maybe even give different enemies different chase timers, so the player can try to run away but depending on the enemy it might chase for a while or even get a few hits in. Then maybe make it so that when the character is hit while retreating or hit in the back he takes more damage. So you could try to get to the temple of blah blah and get that uber item there even though the enemies in the woods near it are a bit beyond you. It would be risky but possible. Or you could do something else for a bit to buff up and get to the temple using brute force method. I personally love stuff like this. Action battle systems that allow for a little bit more "strategy" than just hack n slash. Throw in a few different damage types, resistance and weakness variables for enemies and armor sets the player can choose from. Maybe you want to wear leather armor instead of metal armor even though its weaker because you are going up against some sort of ice based creatures and leather can absorb the cold better?

Yeah ok I'm rambling now sorry.

[Bjorn]

The best way to find out what Chrono Trigger battles are like, is to play it I think. Here [1] is a site with the ROM (though I haven't tested integrity of the download) and ZSNES [2] is a nice cross platform emulator.

[1] http://csd.varlew.net/ctemu.htm
[2] http://zsnes.sf.net/

[ThousandKnives]

While Chrono Trigger battles are interesting, they aren't random. Every encounter in the game is planned. Thats pretty limiting.

[BigManJones]

If you haven't played the exile or avernum games from spiderwebsoftware then your missing some GREAT games; I haven't played CT or most of the others. Avernum is completely turned based in that when you move all the other characters/npc's move but time does pass in the game world if you stand around.

I LOVE the combat system in the avernum games; if your on the big outdoor map then the view zooms in to random closeup map and you manuever you 4 member party around and cast spells and attack, then the enemy party does the same. In Avernum 1 killing the dragon Motrax in the lair with all the giants is very tricky and the final battle with the evil emperor is crazy hard.

For commercial rpgs I lean toward the constant time/pause system of the BG/infinty engine games. The neat feature I would like to see is the ability to zoom in and out of the scene so characters with REALLY long range attacks/weapons/senses can be more effective. For example; an rpg based on the Space: 1889 rpg system (or any 'modern' setting) would have to allow combat with rifles and pistols and to me this is the only way to make that kind of combat realistic in the bioware/iso format.

[Mandrake]

[Rainer Deyke]

[Ninkazu]

[js71]