[XMark]

Imagine this...

On the surface, it looks like an ordinary, relatively un-ambitious independent MMORPG. Top-view 2-D graphics, Pixel*tile scrolling. Simple battle engine, simple gameplay mechanics. Big persistent world to explore.

The development process was also the same thing that you usually see, until the point that the engine was finished, at which point the development takes a shift into something completely different. You know why?

Because this MMORPG is in a world that is continually shifting and growing to the developer's whims. Instead of creating the entire world beforehand, the developers jump into the world as "builders". They walk amongst the regular players, but they have the ability to paint tiles on the map as they walk. They also place entities and enemies, edit their scripting code and other attributes while the game is running. And if the builder doesn't like the way a certain tile looks, he simply edits the tile and BAM, all over the world every instance of the tile instantly changes its look.

Now, imagine several of these builders at work at one time. A tile artist and a level designer working together, both seeing instantly their results and sharing their ideas with an amazing level of communication.
"Hey, I want some stone support pillars here, here, and here. Could you draw some up for me?"
"Sure! Give me a couple minutes..."
(level designer guy continues working on the rest of the building while he waits)
"I'm done the pillar tiles. Here you go."
"Thanks!"
(level designer places the tiles. Note that during this exchange another level designer was making another building across the street)

BUT! On top of that, the regular players would also have some access to builder's features. Using game money, they could buy plots of land (allocated by the builders) and use them to make their own houses, or dungeons, or whatever they want to make in that area.
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!

[Ironshanks]

People have proposed similar things before but never followed through for whatever reason.

I think its a good idea. Just today I was thinking about the idea of truly interactive game worlds. Active world building would be awesome, I also imagine that the world would get quite large.

It would require a great deal of planning to make sure that that information was transmitted smoothly wouldn't it?
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That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.

[XMark]

I wonder if this kind of thing could be accomplished using databases for the maps and tiles and stuff, or are they too slow for gaming purposes?

EDIT:

Yes, this would be a very difficult thing to program, though once an engine was finished, the world-building would sort of be on "auto-pilot". And if a builder lost interest and stopped working on stuff, then you could just get another builder to replace him. The major risk, of course, would be a rogue builder suddenly going apeshit on the world and destroying stuff. Or an evil hacker giving himself builder's privileges.
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!

[Mandrake]

hey Xmark.

I love this idea- thought abot doing something similiar before myself. It depends on what you want to write it in- but most DB are pretty fast and the slow down is minimal. Esp if it's a flatfile DB.
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"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark

http://pauljessup.com

[Rainer Deyke]

Doesn't sound too hard to do technically. The real cost of a graphical MUD (i.e. "MOORPG") is server machinery, content creation, and support.

[Nexinarus_lazy]

That sounds awesome :).
But yeah very complex in terms of communication with the server and other players.

[Bjorn]

I have been thinking about almost exactly the same thing as well, but until now have been not been feeling like implementing it. I just feel the design and GUI should be really well thought out beforehand. Also, I've never done a multiplayer game before so I am still puzzled on how to design the client-server protocol.

In any case, the idea is great.

[Adam]

You gots to remember with these online free internet game things is that people will bitch constantly if you change someting. A-Tracror www.gameislands.net is not really what your talking about but it does have the whole serverside->client dynamic world thing going on.

Id be restrictive with selling blocks of land if i was building this, mainly for zoneing so the place looks 'realistic'. As i noticed with A-Tractor there can be a building boom then everyone stops playing, and you end up with a huge sprawling place thats easy for new players to get lost in so they don't bother comming back.
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https://numbatlogic.com

[XMark]

I've been investigating into database servers and stuff, mainly to figure out if the database approach would work for storing maps/entities/et cetera in an RPG. (is it possible to store image files in a database?)

I've got MySQL running on my computer, that was easy enough. But now I'm wondering, can you access information through MySQL with any programming language? (I'm a total newbie in this area.)

I know I could do it by doing command-line calls within the program and redirecting the output, but that doesn't seem like the right way.
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!

[Ninkazu]

Yes, it's very possible to connect to a MySQL database with something like C++. It can even be on a remote server. I'm not quite sure how to do this myself, but I've seen a screensaver that uses c++ and opengl to communicate with a mysql database to get the text for the screensaver.

[Bjorn]

I've only ever used MySQL from PHP scripts behind webpages, never for use in games. But MySQL should be usable from C/C++ as well, I'd just search for libraries as I think they are available.

Yes, you can store images in a database, in MySQL you'd probably use the BLOB datatype, which can contain any binary block of data iirc. But you can also store them as files, using the row ID in the name the files will always have a unique name. I don't know what would be more convenient. For the screenshots on RPGDX, the images are stored as normal files.

I don't yet see why you want to store all information in a database though. Is it just to that you can have it take care of synchonization problems?

Maybe you might consider using Java? A server implementation with Enterprise Java Beans would be an interesting thing to consider. Might as well be much more complicated that it needs to be though.

[LeoDraco]

MySQL++ would be what you'd want to use; it's an API for C++ for accessing a MySQL server.
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"...LeoDraco is a pompus git..." -- Mandrake