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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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 Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:28 pm Post subject: Continuing. |
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- If you can't provide anything to this thread then don't bother saying anything. I can flame with the best of you, but I won't waste my time on idiots.
- If you don't think this has anything to do with indie-RPG gaming, then don't bother responding, either, because all of this is relevant to game design.
| Quote: | | And I don't think FFX-2 does that. |
- But I do. So then it becomes a matter of who sees what as what.
| Quote: | | and where at in FFX-2 is this portrayed? I don't see Yuna saying she was dressing like that to attract men. She was dressing like that because she was a pop star. Blame Japanese Pop fashion. Tenshi, btw, all that JPOP you love also promotes the same outfits, attitudes and etc as FFX-2. It's a essentially a JPOP video game. |
- I'm a big fan of Japanese Pop stats, and you know... when I saw who did "Real Emotion" (Koda Kumi) I went to her website. I believe this link will work, I'm not sure:
http://www.avexnet.or.jp/koda/disc/
Note that she has one outfit that could match the FFX2 description, and note the rest. I retain that on average Japanese Pop Stars wear more clothing than American Pop Stars. And Koda is one of the more scantily clad ones. World-Famous popstars like Utada Hikaru are also far more clothed than their upstart counterparts. Compare her music videos to those of Britney Spears, Christina Aguilerra, or heh... the majority of others. Another is Ayumi Hamasaki.
| Quote: | | My best friends wife is also a gamer, an artist, and a hard core neo feminist. All three of them love FFX-2. |
- So how come you call me a Neo-feminist.. and I completely hate the game?
| Quote: | | but they didn't say that they made her a slut to become more popular. |
- No. I never said Lara Croft was a slut. But Lara Croft is also scanty clad, booty shorts, twin guns, running around in tombs getting shot at. You mention that they made her more feminine.. I guess it really depends on the concept of feminine. What was she in Final Fantasy X? Seemed quite feminine to me. Very "girly", if you must use a term. However, the reaction a lot of people seem to give her is she was too reserved and 'whiny'. However, last I checked, Lara Croft is more of a stern, brave, self-sufficient woman who also 'takes no shit'. The only thing transferred from Lara to Yuna was clothing. The difference between FFX-2 and FFX then, becomes a difference in the _amount_ of clothing she is wearing.
| Quote: | | All the adult, married woman I know love the game. Maybe your woman gamers are just crumedgeans. |
- Or maybe it's just all the women you know like it. Some of the women on WomenGamers are married. Some of them like it, some of them do not. Some of them hold the same stance I do, some hold varying degress of it.
| Quote: | | Well you know how FANTASY games have to portray reality so well. I find it odd you complain about the realism of wearing heels, but not in casting spells and fighting monsters. |
- Shall we go to fighting games, then?
| Quote: | | Either way I find your heels arguement confusing. Why would the only reason someone dressed nice would be becasue they were enslaved to a male dominated society? That's like saying female goths who wear slave necklaces do so to attract men. It's fasion. Wether or not you agree with said fashion is only a matter of opinion. |
- Indeed it is. I will find her article if it is still available on the internet. It was focused more on the Stiletto, but I still appreciated the article. Perhaps you shall, too.
| Quote: | | sacks of fat? There called breasts. That's probably the most sexist thing I've ever heard. |
- And what is the majority of a woman's breast composed of?
| Quote: | ....blah blah blah
this has to do with FFX-2? |
- It's a woman designing a game. Hmm.. I wonder.. obviously not all women ( especially designers ) think that that's the way women should dress in games. That was the point.
| Quote: | | Maybe because your not a woman. I don't question it, if they enjoy it, let 'em. |
- Maybe, maybe not. But not all women I know enjoy the game, either. I guess it depends on who we associate with. I know some that *do* like it, I know a lot who don't.
| Quote: | | and is a bitch. Can't woman be powerfull and still effeminate? I guess not by yr standards. |
- I read an article once.. why is it a woman who is self-sufficient, head-strong, and doesn't 'take any shit' is a bitch? I almost never think of 'bitch' in a derogatory sense, unless it's sex-related. If someone says a woman acts like a bitch, I think, hey, more power to her. So in the converse, can't a woman be headstrong, intelligent, powerful and commanding, and NOT be a bitch? I never thought of Janeway as a bitch. Do you consider Paine a bitch?
- Also, does effeminate mean that a woman has to behave like a giggling child? Effeminate means "like a woman", or possessing qualities thereof... if these women are supposed to be very effeminate.. is that to say that the epitome of an effeminate woman is the stereotypical bubble-headed blonde? 'Cause I sure like intelligent, headstrong women, but maybe that comes from my passive-submissive personality. Pardon me if I think that empowering to women should be more than a group of girls cheering "GIRL SQUAD!!! XD XD !!!! one 1!!!" and showing some wit, some skill, and that it takes more than a pretty body to get what you want.
- Last, but definitely not least, *I* am a bitch. :)
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- Jaeda
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supergoat
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 21 Dec 2002
Posts: 13
Location: in the smile of every newborn
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| Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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What are forums without their bitches :P
First off, I think that Lara Croft, while definitely the benchmark for female objectification in games, is somewhat of a paradox and therefore a poor example. As Tenshi said, her manner is quite controlled, her role empowering, and her dialog (my opinion although some would definitely disagree on the basis of cliche) rather intelligent. However, design-wise she's an otherwise plain, very un-special looking character with gigantic tits and shorts that I wouldn't have to take off to take a leak. She resembles a poser model to which an extrusion filter has been applied to the boobies, which tempts me to stab her creator, Toby Gard (who has been hailed as a genius for doing what most college freshmen do in their first year modeling course) in the face with a shovel.
FFX2 is a fun game (something I deduced only from my 20 minutes of having played it, 20 minutes without cutscenes or musical interludes). The fact that they're budding (no pun intended) pop stars to me serves only to demonstrate the development of the characters on another level and therefore adds more depth to the story.. they may well have been aspiring neurosurgeons or rock climbers, or even industrial metal rivetheads. However, they're pop stars, and yes in today's pop culture a certain measure of scantness of dress comes with that territory. It adds to the authenticity of the game. Pop star/ass-kicking hero is such an unusual combo that I'd think it sold more copies than that little part of the boob that you can kinda see from the side of the protagonists' halter tops, and my first impression of it was that these heroines simply had more to their lives than just killing shit, along with a suggestion (this is a stretch) that OMG! Pop stars have more going on with them than jiggly parts! Can't grudge them that :P
With regards to their bubbly, as some would say 'girly' attitudes.. I hate to break it to you, but there really are people that act like that, just as there are no-nonsense balls/ovaries-of-steel personalities, forum bitches, and sex-starved prepubes who jerk it to the Nude Raider cheat. If you really have a problem with it, go find a bubbly, happy girl and scream at them until they cry. One of my best friends is the most "bubble-headed" girl you'll ever meet, and is a competent, educated person currently whizzing through medical school. I can give you her number, but lately she's usually busy spending all her free time playing FFX2.
I agree, Tenshi. There are some sickening examples of female objectification in games, but I don't think FFX2 is one of them. :P
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Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Regarding Captain Janeway: I can't stand her. Which is sad, because one of my main gripes with the earlier Star Trek series was that the women were all in inferior positions to the males. Janeway comes across as a self-righteous hypocrite who justifies her unjust decisions by hiding behind Starfleet protocol while ignoring Starfleet protocol whenever it suits her.
Regarding FF X-2: Haven't seen it, haven't played it. I must admist that I find myself vaguely intrigued by the discussions here. And while I'm very much in favor of intelligent, assertive, fully dressed female protagonists, I don't think all female protagonists have to be like that. Pornstars are people too.
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter
Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| Rainer Deyke wrote: | | Pornstars are people too. |
I'm given to understand that Jenna Jameson is quite articulate and intelligent.
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"...LeoDraco is a pompus git..." -- Mandrake
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Adam
Mage
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 416
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Asia Carrera is in Mensa.
Seems she can make more money showing her boobies than using her head.
Edit: Seems she prefers the nakey work as it is less intensive and gives her the time to do what she wants.
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https://numbatlogic.com
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