[biggerUniverse]

I would love to link it but unforunately their server crashed recently, and they still don't have archives.

Here's the gist:
"How do we create a XML-based interchange format to interchange objects between MMOGs, thus creating a multiverse?"

Issues:
+Transferring model and code of object could introduce viral objects into game worlds
+ Transferring just model might leave player out of context (Fantasy dwarf in scifi world)
+ Some functions (or spells) may have no comparable substitute in the target game world
+ One game may more generously hand out powerful items than another, and flood the market of another game
+ security, security, security

So it occurred to me. I think this would be a neat challenge for the next RPGDX compo- that all games have to use the same XML-based save-file format, so that I can take my character and load it up in another of the compo games. I think this would be a lot more plausible if the 3 month compo idea holds.

EDIT: it's also a good exercise in synchronization of disconnected entities, since everyone would have to talk about what they are doing in their game, and what they plan to save...

What does everyone think?
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[Nephilim]

Cool idea.

You mention transferring "model" but not "code". Was there any discussion about what that would look like? Obviously, you can't easily transfer code between games written in different languages, and it opens a lot of security issues, so that sounds like a good way to go, but how would you define a model that would accomodate several different games? Sounds like an interesting challenge.

[Mandrake]

http://www.xmlrpc.com/

The whole point of XML is not needing to worry abot the underlying code. Since it's easily portable, you should just be able to open up XML in anything (OS, any programming language) and just be able to read it.
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[Bjorn]

I think before it makes sense to transfer characters, items, spells etc. between games, the games will have to be carefully aligned. They do not necessarily need to be the same as I could imagine a space trade game somehow allowing the player to jump into a hack & slash frenzy on planets in a totally different game but with essentially the same character.

Once the application becomes clear though, I think that coming up with what to transfer in XML isn't that hard anymore. A general interexchange format is much harder to specify and might end up with being XML itself.

[Nephilim]

[biggerUniverse]

Most were against transferring either the model or code, in favor of a "description" if you will, of the item. They use a spell book specifically.

If you go from fantasy to sci-fi, there are probably not any spellbooks. Nor would it be very nice (assuming you could transfer code) to be an android whom someone just cast "power-word sleep" on. So most advocate transfering a description, and the target system decides if it has any parallels, or if it is just a "book" or "data crystal" maybe, and you can not cast any spells while you're in Joe's Spacedock. When you jump back to LuAnn's Dragons and Heroes, there is your spellbook, looking as though you never left.

(Note this is all predigested by me. The actual discussion was far longer and more detailed)
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[Nephilim]

Hmm. I fail to see what the purpose of transferring fantasy characters to a sci-fi genre would be. I mean, if all the skills and trappings change, and the character's relationship to his/her world completely changes, what are you transferring, really?

I'm also skeptical that describing things so generally would result in a recognizable character.

I think I'd be in favor of keeping the definition genre-specific, or at least have genre-specific subsections of the data file so that genre-relevant games can take advantage of that data. In other words, you could mark that spellbook as being a fantasy genre item, and you could specify its fantasy genre characteristics. You could still mark it with its general characteristics ("data storage device", "skill granter", "extremely rare"), but it could also give like-genre games cues as to ways to interpret the item ("necromancy spells", "evil", "cursed").

[biggerUniverse]

Well, I think a multiverse is little more than novel. Now, a company could make good use of it if they could intertwine the stories of all their games. That's COH/COV type stuff.

I think the application is not so important as the medium and method. I still believe the idea is very interesting, and if there was a standard format for the interchange of characters.

EDIT: I don't think genre even needs to play into it. I think there is a standard set of tags, and every target system uses their own XSLT to handle the conversion. It's really a matter of finding what is similar. I understand your point- without context it seems rather useless. Another problem is that you need a lot of data on the client side to go hopping around different games all day.
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[Nephilim]

[biggerUniverse]

Well, impromptu:

<object type="book" name="Tome of Stuffs">
<object type="scroll" name="Scroll of Infravision">
<logic description="spell"/>
</object>
</object>

This describes a book holding one scroll (Scroll of Infravision). Now, when I go to spacedock, the game looks at the book tag and says: "Ok a container that equates to a 'data crystal'. I'll spawn a data crystal and put a 'Scroll of Infravision' file in it." Now here I stand in spacedock with my data crystal "Tome of Stuffs". When I go back to the castle, the reverse applies. I really think it would only be possible to pull this off if a single team was making all the games, as I don't want to think about how many conversions each game would have to support if they were not designed as a semi-cohesive group.
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[Nephilim]

Thanks for the sample snippet.

I guess the issue I see here is that this sort of markup doesn't transmit the essence of the object, which would be the capabilities that the player gains from having this object. Owning this object gives the player access to that spell, which is the important gameplay-level mechanic there, not that it is wrapped up in a book object.

Also, note that your example (granted, off-the-cuff) contains a lot of genre-specific information. For instance, you refer to a "Tome" instead of a "data crystal" as the name, and you have "scrolls" and "spells" as objects / data types.

I like the idea of a generalized set of tags which you can apply an XSLT to in order to convert the generic game save to whatever game you're building. I'm just skeptical that if you strip out genre-specific information that you can capture the essence of the character. I think you'd get more mileage in having a set of DTD's for genre-specific game saves, and then building XSLT's that convert the XML files between the DTD's if you want to move a character to a different genre. That way, you retain detail when staying in the same genre, and only lose detail when you switch genres (which is really where you'd expect to lose detail anyway).

Maybe the best idea would be to just have game developers publish the DTD for their game's save game file. Then anyone could write an XSLT to capture whatever information is in each save game file for use in their own game.

[Joakim]

[biggerUniverse]

Well, but how many of the games written on Unreal engine allow you to load up a character from another game written in Unreal engine? Furthermore, do the MMOGs written on Unreal engine allow you to take your character from one MMOG, and place it in another, completely different MMOG?
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[Joakim]

Actually, that's quite possible. Since all high level game mechanics are written in UnrealScript, I suppose you could copy the class along with the needed data (models, sounds, you name it) and use it directly or with little modification in another Unreal Engine based game. Of course some specified game mechanics will not work the same in two compleatly different games, but if anybody had the intention, I don't think it'd be a major problem.

[BigManJones]