| View previous topic - View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
VDweller
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
|
 Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: Age of Decadence - indie RPG |
[quote] |
|
Hey guys,
I decided to drop by and introduce an indie RPG we are working on - The Age of Decadence.
It's a an isometric, turn-based, single-player 3D role-playing game set in a low magic, post-apocalyptic fantasy world, inspired by the fall of the Roman Empire. The game features a detailed skill-based character system, non-linear gameplay, multiple skill-based ways to handle quests, choices & consequences, and extensive dialogue trees.
Here is the latest article at RPG Vault, explaining our quest design and featuring 11 new screens:
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/749/749013p1.html
Your opinions, suggestions, criticism are welcome.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:41 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
I'm not fond of the graphics at all, but the game itself looks interesting.
Seriously, this is one of the worst-looking rpgs I've seen in some time. The 2D artwork on the web page looks so much better than the 3D artwork in the screenshots that I have to wonder why you aren't doing the game itself in that style. For that matter, since it's already a text-heavy game, you could go the all-text route and eliminate graphics entirely.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nodtveidt
Demon Hunter
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 786
Location: Camuy, PR
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:48 am Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
RD, are you serious?! The graphics look just fine in the screenshots. Doesn't look like it's going to need a 6GHz computer to get 15fps like many over-the-top games these days.
_________________
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:37 am Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| nodtveidt wrote: | | RD, are you serious?! |
Yes.
| Quote: | | Doesn't look like it's going to need a 6GHz computer to get 15fps like many over-the-top games these days. |
Graphics power isn't really an issue. I've seen better-looking graphics on the NES.
If you're going to go with the utterly boring and generic "realistic" look for your game, the least you can do is add some shadows and adjust your colors and contrast levels so that your characters look vaguely like real people and less like glowing pink mutants. Even the characters in Final Fantasy 1 had more facial expressions.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nodtveidt
Demon Hunter
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 786
Location: Camuy, PR
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| Rainer Deyke wrote: | | Graphics power isn't really an issue. I've seen better-looking graphics on the NES. |
You're harsh. Remind me not to show you my new FPS.
_________________
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| nodtveidt wrote: |
You're harsh. |
Yes. I don't believe in holding back when someone asks for critique - especially on a project that appears to have commercial aspirations.
| Quote: | | Remind me not to show you my new FPS. |
Actually I thought the Two Lords screenshots you posted in September were quite nice. Not perfect, but hey, I've released worse-looking games.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VDweller
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| Rainer Deyke wrote: | | Seriously, this is one of the worst-looking rpgs I've seen in some time. |
Out of curiosity, which screens are you talking about? The ones on the website or the ones from the RPG Vault article?
| Quote: | | The 2D artwork on the web page looks so much better than the 3D artwork in the screenshots that I have to wonder why you aren't doing the game itself in that style. |
Well, the 2D art on the website is just a few pictures. It takes a lot more art resources to make a game, and 3D was a much better option for us.
| Quote: | | If you're going to go with the utterly boring and generic "realistic" look for your game, the least you can do is add some shadows and adjust your colors and contrast levels... |
Engine limitations. Adding some shadows is a bit more complicated than closing your eyes and wishing for it. Again, out of curiosity, what are some examples of not "utterly boring and generic" visuals?
| Quote: | | Yes. I don't believe in holding back when someone asks for critique - especially on a project that appears to have commercial aspirations. |
Now, I don't mind criticism, and God knows, I get plenty of it, but saying "wow, the graphics suck" is not the best example of it. Just sayin'.
| nodtveidt wrote: | | The graphics look just fine in the screenshots. |
Thanks. The graphics won't win any awards, of course, but they do get the job done.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| VDweller wrote: |
Out of curiosity, which screens are you talking about? The ones on the website or the ones from the RPG Vault article? |
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/screenshots.htm
Looking at the RPG Vault article, it looks like the lighting and relative contrast level have been improved, at the cost of making everything too dark to see any detail. Still looks utterly generic and boring. If you're trying to make it look like night, changing the colors to blue (like in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The_Secret_of_Monkey_Island.PNG]
this example[/url]) would look a lot better than just making too dark to see.
| Quote: | | Well, the 2D art on the website is just a few pictures. It takes a lot more art resources to make a game, and 3D was a much better option for us. |
It sounds like you're implying that it's impossible to make a good-looking 2D RPG on a small budget. That just isn't the case.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VDweller
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| Rainer Deyke wrote: | | Looking at the RPG Vault article, it looks like the lighting and relative contrast level have been improved, at the cost of making everything too dark to see any detail. |
You can't see anything here?
link
| Quote: | | Still looks utterly generic and boring. |
What exactly? And again, what are the examples of unique and exciting visuals?
| Quote: | | It sounds like you're implying that it's impossible to make a good-looking 2D RPG on a small budget. |
"Good looking" is subjective, aint it? When I think of a good-looking 2D RPG I think Baldur's Gate, not what you've shown me.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terry
Spectral Form
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 798
Location: Dublin, Ireland
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| Quote: | | The graphics won't win any awards, of course, but they do get the job done. |
I think you've got your priorities right, for what it's worth. Who cares how it looks? Good luck with the game!
_________________
http://www.distractionware.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BadMrBox
Bringer of Apocalypse
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 1022
Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
I think that the graphics are good, it'll do the job but it looks a bit boring. But, it's really a matter of taste and yadda-yadda. For example, I like how Warcraft3 and disgaea looks. It's the gameplay that counts far most in the end. Good luck with your game VDweller.
_________________
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| VDweller wrote: |
You can't see anything here?
link |
A better example of too-dark-to-see would be this. It's not that I can't see, but I have to strain my eyes, which is annoying and probably unhealthy.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Still looks utterly generic and boring. |
What exactly? |
It's impossible to give any specific examples here, because "generic" is a default state. Simply put, there's nothing about the graphics that makes them look "interesting", "beautiful", "impressive", or even "good". It looks like you haven't even made a conscious decision to pursue any particular art style beyond (semi-)"realistic".
| Quote: | | And again, what are the examples of unique and exciting visuals? |
Seiken Densetsu 3
| Quote: | | "Good looking" is subjective, aint it? |
Apparently.
| Quote: | | When I think of a good-looking 2D RPG I think Baldur's Gate, not what you've shown me. |
Are you serious? Because Baldur's Gate, while looking better than your game, is still one of the worst-looking 2D rpgs I've ever played. I don't think further discussion would be productive at this point, since our aesthetic senses are obviously incompatible.
Last edited by Rainer Deyke on Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RedSlash
Mage
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 331
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
It looks like someone has preference for 2D games more than 3D?
The game looks nice and it seems interesting. Your website is quite professionally designed.
I think the boringness of the graphics comes mostly from the photographic look of the textures and that each floor/wall/object seems to only have 1 texture that repeats itself over and over again.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
VDweller
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 09 Dec 2006
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| Echo wrote: | | I think you've got your priorities right, for what it's worth. Who cares how it looks? Good luck with the game! |
Thanks.
| BadMrBox wrote: | | I think that the graphics are good, it'll do the job but it looks a bit boring. |
I agree with that. While we have more interesting locations, the towns do look kinda boring. The big picture may have some interesting details like the crumbling, patched up walls, destroyed gate, etc, but the buildings look generic and, well, boring.
| Quote: | | Good luck with your game VDweller. |
Thanks.
| Rainer Deyke wrote: | | A better example of too-dark-to-see would be this. It's not that I can't see, but I have to strain my eyes, which is annoying and probably unhealthy. |
Now that's nitpicking. It's perfectly clear from the scene and the text screens explaining the situation that it's an assassination attempt, hence the dark room, etc. You can't really say that the entire game is too-dark-to-see based on one, very specific screen, can you?
| Quote: | | Simply put, there's nothing about the graphics that makes them look "interesting", "beautiful", "impressive", or even "good". |
Again, all these labels are very subjective. What's interesting & impressive to you isn't interesting & impressive to someone else. That's why I'm trying to understand the nature of your criticism, so that I can improve (hopefully) what I have.
| Quote: | | It looks like you haven't even made a conscious decision to pursue any particular art style beyond (semi-)"realistic". |
You are absolutely right. What the game clearly lacks is the art style. Any advice (if you are done bitching about how horrible it looks)?
| Quote: | | Are you serious? Because Baldur's Gate, while looking better than your game, is still one of the worst-looking 2D rpgs I've ever played. |
Eh? How so? Ok, I'm not an artist, and perhaps, you are, but didn't BG have absolutely beautiful hand-painted backgrounds and nicely animated characters? Or am I missing something here?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
|
| RedSlash wrote: | | It looks like someone has preference for 2D games more than 3D? |
As a generalization, that's true enough. On the other hand, there are 3D games that I think look good (Unreal Tournament, Need for Speed 4, Zanzarah) and 2D games whose graphics I didn't care for at all.
| VDweller wrote: | | Now that's nitpicking. It's perfectly clear from the scene and the text screens explaining the situation that it's an assassination attempt, hence the dark room, etc. You can't really say that the entire game is too-dark-to-see based on one, very specific screen, can you? |
I can't comment on the entire game at all, since I haven't seen it. However, I think you're missing the point. The problem isn't that I can't make out what the picture is supposed, the problem is that the picture is aesthetically unappealing and hurts my eyes.
In real darkness, the character's eyes would adjust but lose their sense of color. You aren't giving the player's eyes a chance to adjust, because the other use interface elements are still at full brightness. You could simulate the player's eyes adjusting by turning up the brightness but turning down the saturation.
If you want to use darkness to hide something from the player, you might want to consider using pure black. This effectively communicates to the player that it is too dark for their character to see, without hurting the player's eyes.
| Quote: | | You are absolutely right. What the game clearly lacks is the art style. Any advice (if you are done bitching about how horrible it looks)? |
It's hard for me to give you any specific advice. I'm not really an artist myself, and my subjective opinions aren't necessarily worth any more than anybody else's.
However, I do like the 2D art on your website. What I would do in your place is to try to duplicate that 2D art as closely as possible using 3D models. Copy the colors, which are quite nice. Copy the shadows. Copy the smoke. Copy the hand-painted look in your textures. Keep adjusting the color levels until you can reproduce a reasonable approximation of your 2D art as a 3D model.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Are you serious? Because Baldur's Gate, while looking better than your game, is still one of the worst-looking 2D rpgs I've ever played. |
Eh? How so? Ok, I'm not an artist, and perhaps, you are, but didn't BG have absolutely beautiful hand-painted backgrounds and nicely animated characters? Or am I missing something here? |
Actually the art in Baldur's Gate looks more ray-traced than hand-painted to me. Among its flaws:- Poor sense of composition, with no real harmony between the different elements
- No real sense of style beyond "realistic".
- Indiscriminate high level of textural detail. (Real paintings typically use textural detail to draw the viewer's attention to a specific elements. If everything has high detail, the viewer's attention is pulled in all directions at once).
- Overly smooth shading on the characters, which look like they're made of plastic.
- Character are too small and low-res to make out any details. Kind of sad, considering that Final Fantasy 1 (released ages ago on the NES, with less than half the resolution and just four colors per character) did not have this problem.
- Characters on the map have no facial features at all, which makes them barely recognizable as human(oid).
- Strong highlights and deep shadows on the characters further obscure features.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
  |
Page 1 of 3 |
All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
