[RedSlash]

[RampantCoyote]

I'm a videogame industry professional - been in the business off and on for about 14 years now. And I'm going to chime in on the side of Mattias.

There's an old saying that you shouldn't worry about anybody stealing your ideas - if your idea is any good, you'll have to jam it down their throats.

I'm not saying stealing of ideas don't happen. It happens a LOT. Look at a casual gaming portal. For every successful game, there is usually a horde of rip-offs. The keyword is "successful." Until the game proves itself in the marketplace, most people don't consider it worthy of trying to rip it off. That's not to say that doesn't happen either - but if you want to get anywhere in the business of making games, you are going to have to ignore that inner paranoia and show some trust to reputable companies.

That's what business is really about - relationships and trust. The contract is just a formalization. But if you are going to exhibit extreme paranoia and pretend that your Final Fantasy 4 clone is some holy grail of gaming, and demand all kinds of legal protection before even revealing the game to someone else, you will probably end up bitter and unpublished. That's amateur behavior.

The key idea is for you to be a PRODUCER of games, and be committed to that idea. If all you are about is a single game idea, you are a flash in the pan. But while someone might be able to make a clone of one idea that you had, nobody can copy YOU and what you are able to produce - consistently. That is the key to success. Your goal should be to have people CONSTANTLY trying to steal your ideas - and always being 6 months behind - because of your repeat successes.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[Mattias Gustavsson]

That sums things up perfectly :D Well put.
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[Jinroh]

Awesome post Rampant Coyote, your wisdom is much appreciated.

Oh, your from Salt Lake City, how is it down there. My wife is LDS and I want to take her to the City of the Prophet someday.
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Mao Mao Games
The wolf and his mate howl, taking solace in the silver moon. Pressing ever foreward to see what the future holds.

[RampantCoyote]

I'm also LDS.

I'd recommend Christmas for a visit, if you are doing the tourist thing. The lights on Temple Square are incredible. Though you'd have to deal with Salt Lake winter weather ... which generally sucks.

Anyway - I just wanted to share. In my short career as an indie game developer, I have signed a lot of contracts, turned down a few contracts, seen my game sold at several portals, gotten my game included as on a magazine's companion DVD, written proposals and bids for special versions, worked with a freelance marketer, and worked out agreements for affiliate deals with a number of games.

At first it all sucked, but sometimes it's kinda fun. The paperwork part pretty much always sucks.

The best business deals of all were very friendly, very above-board. I talked to guys on the phone or via email, we worked out the opportunity, signed some paperwork, and boom. it all works. If I was ever screwed over in any big way, I never found out about it. Sure, some of the opportunities didn't pan out, and some deals weren't the best... but legitimate, good business people are far more concerned about their reputations than any one game.

The best indicator I have is to look at what the successful indies do, and try to emulate their example. The guys who are really paranoid and fearful of getting ripped off... often never release a single game. The guys who are doing really well are out pimping their games all the time, and while they are judicious with who they sign contracts with, it's due to business reasons rather than paranoia.

And yeah, they do talk to each other about who is good to do business with, and who isn't.

Once some deals are struck with Apogee, I'm sure there'll be talk. But right now, they are an unknown. It's not the same Apogee from the 90's, exactly. But considering their associations, I'd not assume any gross underhandedness on their part. Whether or not it is a good business deal is another matter entirely. Personally, I'm not sure what they are bringing to the table, so I'd be hesitant. Any expertise they once had is obsolete today, and I don't see that they have technology (yet) or presence to rival the likes of Steam, GameTap, or even Manifesto Games or newcomer Greenhouse.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[Jinroh]

Yeah, I think Christmas would be a good time. Weather isn't really a factor because we live in the mountains of Pennsylvania so our winters probably equally suck. :D That works out well, Winter for Salt Lake City and Spring for Vatican City. ;)

Not sure we'll do it the same year, but who knows I'm close to getting a new job that would make that possible.

Anyway, back on topic. I see what you're saying about how business people want to protect their reputation more than anything. The company I work for now manufactures medical devices and we're just getting our first product out there and if there's anything that could ruin our up and coming reputation they work everybody like Hell until it's fixed. :D

I'm glad you've not had any backstabbings or shady dealings in the past. I just wish I could just break into things. I mean I'm working on a game engine, but don't really have any artists besides myself. :D

Anyway, your wisdom is greatly appreciated again Rampant Coyote.
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Mao Mao Games
The wolf and his mate howl, taking solace in the silver moon. Pressing ever foreward to see what the future holds.

[DeveloperX]

reading this all over again I think that RampantCoyote is right.

Thanks for your very informative posts.
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