[Sirocco]

Side note:

One interesting thing I've noticed is that in the "indie realm" everything is cool as long as you are still relatively anonymous. Once you've produced something that marks you as being somewhat successful in your field, it's amazing how many of your comrades are quick to dismiss your efforts.

Seems like everyone wants to succeed, but no one wants to see anyone ELSE succeed.

Just something I've noticed. For years.

[Nodtveidt]

that's about the size of it :) coz once you "succeed", people assume you've either garnered a huge ego, or assume you've sold out. Unfortunately, the former is often true...once someone gets a taste of success, they begin to think that their shit doesn't stink. I have had a multitude of successes :) but I still don't think I'm top dog, better than anyone else, king of the proverbial indie hill, or anything along those lines. Sure I have an ego...I had one before I was even into this all and it will never die :) but it's fueled by continued successes, not by riding the wave of one success for many years. I was somewhat of a trendsetter over the last few years...everyone wanted to do stuff I was doing, people watched what I was up to to see what they could try to do better, and I was always glad when they could. It's not about what I can do, it's about what everyone can do to improve development as a whole (remember DS4QB anyone? I innovated it, then others took to the concept and produced superior versions). And that's where I think a lot of indie people lose sight of what's important...they forget that it's not "me, me, me" but instead, "us, us, us". When we share ideas and concepts, when we lead the way into uncharted territory, when we help each other out...that's what makes us special. When we try to ride the wave of one or two "hits", when we suddenly think that we're on top of the world and no one can touch our "mad skillz", when we ignore people in need of help because "we have better things to do"...that's when we are worthless trash. Am I myself proud of my accomplishments? Yes. Why? Almost all of them spawned new ideas or technologies that improved development as a whole...not because I could say "Well...I started it, I rule, you all just copied me".

So err...I guess I've gone off on a tangent now, haven't I :) anyways, that's my thinking on the subjects being discussed as of late...anyone else care to comment? :)

-nek

[XMark]

I see the match has been struck, and will lock this before the flames erupt.
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!

[XMark]

Whoops! Silly me, I failed to notice that this topic had reached a second page of threads. The first page just had people making fun of each other, and I didn't notice the second page had some actual insightful, intelligent dialogue.

Thanks to Nek for pointing out my mistake. Sorry!
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!

[Sirocco]

[Nodtveidt]

You knew it was coming :P SOMEONE had to do it, why not RPGDX's most hated developer :D

Any I don't mind being a faerie princess either!!!!!!! :)

And while I'm here posting something nonsensical, let me add some more thoughts on this subject matter that's been created.

Ever been considered a deity of programming? Well, very few people can honestly claim that they have even once, let alone many times. What happens when you do? You garner a huge ego problem, and eventually, someone better than you knocks you off your high horse and back into reality. What am I trying to say? Being a programming deity doesn't make you better than anyone else...well ok, maybe your skills outshine the majority, but lest you forget that skills are skills...this is not the commercial world where your name alone can promote a product (*cough* Square *cough* their recent "RPGs" SUCK ASS *cough*). Being considered a deity does nothing for your programming skills. Instead of listening to that kind of stuff, listen to the ones who criticize you, since they are the ones who can see your flaws and areas where you need to improve. Win over your critics by improving you abilities and making them eat their own words. Constantly challenge yourself to work harder, think better, and develop at a higher standard. Raise the bar of your own personal ability at every opportunity. Don't ever settle for the mediocre. And one day, someone who was once considered a deity will consider you one. But don't listen to them...listen to the ones who point you in the direction of improvement.

-nek

[Sirocco]

A valuable skill is to be able to differentiate input from people genuinely interested in improving your work, and worthless nitpickers who simply want to try and pick apart what you're doing because they are incapable of producing anything comparable to your work. When people like Andy Goth and Bob (from Allegro.cc) started giving me advice... I gave them my full attention!

I have several threads FULL of stuff over at the Allegro forums where these four or five guys went through demo 2 and filled me in on about a dozen bugs, and gave me a plethora of helpful suggestions. That was invaluable, to say the least, and many of their suggestions have already been implemented.

Then you have threads like the one at the now defunct GDR, which basically consisted of countless pages of pedant dribble. If I listened to every MisterFrosty who came along, I'd never accomplish anything :)

Heh :)

[XMark]

hehe... hearing this, I'm feeling quite glad to be in the "just another indie RPG developer" category. I suppose I have some deity status for my music but I'm quite par for the course when it comes to game development as a whole :)
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!

[Sirocco]

Funny story about unexpected feedback:

I was skimming through my email some time ago when I received this rather lengthy, but thoroughly polite email. The guy's name was Tom Beaumont, which I thought sounded somewhat familiar. He basically noted that I had incorrectly translated a sign (IIRC the one that supposedly says "BEER" on the Crimson Dragoon). He then went on to describe how I should have scribed the characters to do an accurate translation -- which I *greatly* appreciated, for although my Kung Fu is strong, my Nihongo skills are less than impressive :)

Then something clicked... and I looked at the domain name in the FROM tag. Psygnosis.com. Then I remembered that Tom Beaumont was a long-standing developer for Psygnosis.

Then I promptly urinated all over myself. It's amazing to think of how many people come into contact with the games we make... or even haven't finished making.

[Nodtveidt]

[darkpagan]

Actually Xmark I've always thought you were a kinda deity. The arc series is one of the most famous indie rpgs ever.
On the subject of Square's recent shitepacks my eventual goal is to create a commercial company producing true good RPG's rather than crap like kingdom hearts or "on-rail" RPGs like FF10.
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

[Mandrake]

actually i agree with dp, you've kind of gained a cult status xmark, but not a deity kind of thing. Like your games get you respect, not worship.

me, i don't care. i make games for fun. i make games because i can. if people like it cool, but the tides of fandom come and go so fast it's not even funny. one minute your god, the next minute, people are saying "oh yeah, him. he's got an ego problem now, his games used to be cool"

Bleah. but that's the scene, take it or leave it.

ps-
down with Frosty!

[Nodtveidt]

so very true.

-nek

[XMark]

[darkpagan]

Lately I've been starting to feel that RPGs as a genre are starting to stagnate. Always the fantasy/sci-fi world with certain variations. One of my projects Scourge is hopefully going to be somewhat different....
Or else it'll just be the same only "darker". Am I the only one feeling like this?
_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.