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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter


Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
Location: Location:

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:26 am    Post subject: [quote]

Ya, I usually think of a witty comment to say, then I don't say it for a while, then I think about how much time has gone passed, then I just kinda let it die :P
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Spearor
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess


Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:55 pm    Post subject: [quote]

hmmm ok, i feel more comfortable now... i leave my (20x35) sprites unlined =)
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Ironshanks
Wandering Minstrel


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Shiner's Peak

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:17 pm    Post subject: [quote]

It doesn't matter which you choose as long as you do it WELL. I personally love the outline from an artistic standpoint, and use it extensively. BUT a lot of people simply use it because they don't know what else to do and that is what tends to lower the quality.
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Frog*lazy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:13 am    Post subject: [quote]

Alright, I know this topic is... Well... Dead and old...
But I had a discussion on this same topic with a friend awhile ago- Well not too long ago...
But this is what we came up with: (sprites by Zako, do not use)
No outline. Looks decent:

Colored dark outline. Looks much better and cleaner:

Black outline. Ugh. Looks bad:

The reason I think this is, is that some smaller, more complex sprites such as this one, need to kind of 'fade out' around the edges to create the desired depth- Hence the colored outlines. If you leave them out it looks flat, and if you give it black 'lines it looks messy.
This doesn't apply to all sprites, but mostly smaller ones like this one.
Anyway, just my view.
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janus
Mage


Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 464
Location: Issaquah, WA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:30 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Quote:
Black outline. Ugh. Looks bad:

Dunno. That looks fine to me, and I bet it would look nicer on, say, a GBA screen.
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Adam
Mage


Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 416
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:10 am    Post subject: [quote]

I think your dancing in the realm of personal taste frog. The question should be if it works in a game, under real conditions.
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Sirocco
Mage


Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 11:22 am    Post subject: [quote]

Just rehasing what has already been said, and throwing in my own thoughts.


Quote:

Sprites from SFA3, no black outlines. If you submit a piece of artwork to pixelation with black outlines, they'll tell you to get rid of 'em. I mean, who walks around IRL with a black aura besides George Bush?


Pixelation is merely a collection of above-average artists with above-average egos. In the professional realm they all amount to zero ;)

Using outlining, selout (my personal fav), or bare pixels should be decided by the tone of your backgrounds, and your overall graphic style for the game in question. Assuming you don't care about any stylistic properties, you'll still want to make sure your sprites have an acceptable level of contrast to the rest of the screen, and there are times when a dark (or even black) outline may be suitable.

But be consistent: if your players all have outlines, everything else (within reason) should be outlined as well.

.
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Modanung
Mage


Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 317
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:11 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Edited:


Frog's:


I edited the outline a bit, maybe it looks better this way? An outline doesn't have to be just black. And I removed some black pixels from the hands.
Please tell me if you don't like me messing with your art, I'll delete it. Ofcourse also tell me if mine looks worse, I'll delete it a well.
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valderman
Mage


Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:42 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I think your version looks better, but the Bush aura is still pretty visible around the head.
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js71
Wandering DJ


Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 815

PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:10 am    Post subject: [quote]

Can't see the edit.
By the way, I'll say again I didn't make the sprite. My spriter friend Zako made it for my project- I don't want him to think I'm taking credit for it.
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supergoat
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess


Joined: 21 Dec 2002
Posts: 13
Location: in the smile of every newborn

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:35 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I personally have only drawn one sprite with a black outline, and I didn't like it. :p Black outlines were a trend set by games on older systems who needed them to distinguish the blindingly low-color characters from their teal and cyan backgrounds. Something you also see in a lot of independently-arted games is an astonishing lack of color contrast, which also makes black outlines somewhat necessary. I really don't think however that black outlines detract from the quality of a game's art.. just be consistent with your outlining or lack thereof.

Last edited by supergoat on Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ironshanks
Wandering Minstrel


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Shiner's Peak

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:58 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Quote:
If you submit a piece of artwork to pixelation with black outlines, they'll tell you to get rid of 'em.


Heh, I've been at Pixelation for ages and noone has told me not to use black outlines, it's just HOW you use them that counts.

Black outlines can work just fine, but the problem is overuse or misuse of them. For instance, using black outlines for interior details can look pretty bad, on a small scale it clutters up details and makes the whole sprite look much much darker. If you're worried about contrast but don't feel like using outlines, try making the characters more saturated than the background, or making the backgrounds darker.

The most important thing is learning how to make details visible without drawing lines around them. On the interior of a sprite for example, if the value, colour, or saturation of two details are different enough you won't need to draw an outline to show that and you'll have more space to add real details. Like if you have a character with a gold belt and a grey robe, you don't need to draw black outlines around that belt (which could make it three pixels thick instead of one) because it stands out enough on its own.

Sirocco wrote:
Pixelation is merely a collection of above-average artists with above-average egos. In the professional realm they all amount to zero ;)

Haha, likewise ;)
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That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.
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