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Adam
Mage
Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 416
Location: Australia
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 Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Didn't you say earlier that you had an investor ready fork out $10 million but for lack of a demo you couldn't proceed? This is sounding less and less like an established project and more and more like some mmorpg fans sitting around saying 'gee wouldn't it nice if.....' |
He was talking about a previous project.
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valderman
Mage
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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I don't want to sound negative or anything, but this project seems pretty overambitious to me. As previously mentioned, MMORPGs take 2+ years by 40+ person teams of professionals with years of experience to complete, and your project is far more ambitious than any currently existing MMO game, meaning it would take a lot more time and experience to create.
A friendly advice: Scale down your idea. I've seen a few ideas like it get totally ripped and ridiculed on GameDev.
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white_door
Icemonkey
Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 243
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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I guess at one point or another most indie-rpg makers have been burnt with the 'big game' syndrome. This tends to mean even if I see the real thing, I tend to think, "oh another great another big game in my mind". You do seem *really* on to it, but don't be surprised if you encounter doubts where ever you go on the internet. So many people have tried the same thing and failed (myself included... although my project wasn't a mmorpg just a 'big' rpg.)
I have a feeling that getting a concept artist might not be very hard, it might depend on the style you are going for though. In my last 'big game' project I had atleast 6 different concept artists at different points in its development. For example there are hundreds of indie Anime artists out there. Just do a search for the kind of art you are looking for and email the owners of the sites. Many people that work only with drawn pictures don't get requests to work on game projects much, therefore are quite flattered.
I am certain that there might also be people on the internet that like writing... if worst comes to worst you could check out one of the fanfiction communities. :p
The real issue though is communication and timing. (I learnt these the hard way) You might get together the greatest group in the world but if you aren't able to communicate a LOT with all the members in the team your progress will be extremely slow. You mentioned having a forum, I think that is quite wise. In addition you should be on a 1 to 1 basis with each member in the team through email, if you have a 'chain of command' so to speak losing 1 person can cause a whole section of a team to break down.
Timing is extremely critical: as you have said you only need writers and an artist at the start, but in order to move from 'vapourware' to having a technical demo to finally having a full product demo you will need to get new people with new skills on board. If you fail to get these skills at the when you need them, you will lose others in the team as the project 'stalls'. If you already have the people you need onboard from the start, the challange is stopping them from getting bored and leaving especially if they have nothing to contribute at the early stages.
Once you have a 3d artist and maybe a 2d (texture?) artist onboard, getting the interest of programmers will be dead easy, but just becareful! There are a lot of programmers out there who don't have the experience for such a project as yours but think they do. I know my limits and that is why for the forseeable future I'm sticking to 2d only game programming. But you have content makers for your engine, programmers will come and build/modify technology to suite your needs.
That said getting game (2d or 3d) artists interested in a project (even if you have a design document, concept art, story, or even a finished engine!) in practically impossible. If they have the skills why would they mess with you? Especially considering how easy it is to modify an existing game. Just look at the PC mod communities that exist around such games as half-life and other first person shooters. In addition the few that might have been keen to help make a game at one point would more than certainly have been burnt by excited but ultimately misguided programmers.
If you are offering money upfront its another issue altogether. There are a number of high quality 2d and 3d artists that will work on a per piece of art basis. So if you were willing to invest money in your project up front its quite possible you could get a quality demo in no time.
I also advise you to make clear the conditions of working in the project, for example set up a licence agreement for all content to be submitted. It doesn't matter that much if people mantain their own copyrights to their work, just as long as it is given to the project under a license that will not restrict its use at anytime in the future. Of course you might feel safer if it is under the copyright of the company.. but that might be a turn off for people especially if you aren't going to be paying in anything except in 'possible future royalities'.
Anyway good luck, make sure you post your progress, as I myself am quite interested in seeing what happens :) I won't bother to offer myself to join your project as I don't have the skills (programming or art wise) nor the time needed for another project, let alone a mmorpg. In addition I have ethical issues with some of your concepts, but I won't go there. ;)
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TOD75
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings,
I had a long reply to all the points, and comments raised, but for some reason I couldn't post them from my home. It kept saying Invalid session. I was sending it from home. For some reason I can send form work, but not at home. Is my forum account only accessable from one .i.p?
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If I understand, the core aspect of this game is its mature nature. I think the most difficult aspect of achieving this will be finding and keeping mature players, and restricting those who are immature. A game which has "mature content", and unrestricted, unaccountable players, is likely to become very immature very quickly. I'm curious how you intend to prevent this.
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There will be accountability. I plan of a player run judicial system. The will take care of things such as:
1. Name infraction: a player can be brought to trial for his name only once. Once he is judged either way to change his name, or to keep his name. No other complaints for his name can be brought against him /her.
2. Acts of plain nuisances: This can be from spamming the chat channels, using role-playing chat channels to talk about things that are not appropriate to role-playing. (Note: There will be lawless communities, and the rules, and laws will be very laxed if non-existent. as well as places that have lawful governments). The list of offenses will be more detailed out once we have a clear design of how PVP works, Camping, looting, Assassinations (Legal or unsanctioned), swindling, etc.)
3. Normal in game crimes that any law-abiding city would have. (Murder, thievery, poaching, assault, drunk, and disorderly)
Now I know that having a player run judicial system will be a fair as the players that run it, just like our current justice system. In truth I don’t know how far to take the judicial system. It may be scrapped all together, but I can see great role-playing potential of having one.
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The best way I see to keep undesirables out is just the complexity of the system (I guess I'm assuming that immature people are inattentive/stupid, or something). However, such a complex system would pose a problem to the casual player. I assume your target audience is "hard-core" gamers?
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Yes the target audience is hardcore. I want the system only as complex as needed to add more dimension to the various features (Combat, Spell Casting, and Crafting)
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I really like the idea of giving certain players great, great power, as well as legions of followers to boss around. I'm always fond of politicking in games.
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We want to create conflict, and challenges on so many levels. Gods will have to keep their followers happy since the god’s influence is directly proportional to how many followers he has. In the case of Evil gods, They don’t go around sending thank you notes to their followers, so the goals for gods to rise in power may be different for each God to keep it in line with their portfolio, and outlook. Each god will have certain abilities the can give to their followers that other gods won’t have.
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I wonder if you could expand the game beyond Windows? I don't think it would be too hard to have differing machines communicate, would it? Someone with more experience in various OSs or networking or something will be able to add more to this, and maybe show me wrong. I ask because not only are Macs and others a relatively untapped market, but they might be just the "mature" audience you're looking for.
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I would like to make this available to as many platforms as possible, (Windows, Mac, Linux, and Palm)(limited version, but still would be able to do certain things in game. Check in game e-mail, chat, carry out automated tasks etc). We will take a closer look at this once we have a lead programmer.
I will write more later.
Regards,
Xavier
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 2:48 am Post subject: |
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| TOD wrote: | | I had a long reply to all the points, and comments raised, but for some reason I couldn't post them from my home. It kept saying Invalid session. I was sending it from home. For some reason I can send form work, but not at home. Is my forum account only accessable from one .i.p? |
That's the first report of login/session problems I've had in ages. Have you tried closing your browser, logging in anew, and then posting? If that's not working, try removing the rpgdx.net cookie and trying again. If problems persist, email me about it, I don't want to start a discussion about it in this thread. :-)
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TOD75
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Greetings,
| Quote: |
Didn't you say earlier that you had an investor ready fork out $10 million but for lack of a demo you couldn't proceed? This is sounding less and less like an established project and more and more like some mmorpg fans sitting around saying 'gee wouldn't it nice if.....'
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No I had an investor interested in my last project.
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I don't want to sound negative or anything, but this project seems pretty overambitious to me. As previously mentioned, MMORPGs take 2+ years by 40+ person teams of professionals with years of experience to complete, and your project is far more ambitious than any currently existing MMO game, meaning it would take a lot more time and experience to create.
A friendly advice: Scale down your idea. I've seen a few ideas like it get totally ripped and ridiculed on GameDev.
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I have scaled this to be in stages. I am not sure if you are familiar with Wizard’s on the Coast open license of their table top game Dungeons and Dragons, but we are going to work on a supplement done in the setting of Tears of Dious. We now have a something we can create products from by developing the setting first. I can then license the setting to other writers to write novels, graphic novels. More d20 supplements, one-person RPG games, and a MMORPG. The possibilities are endless. It really does depend on the talent I find. Each stage has an increasing level of difficulty, but with each completion of the prior stage momentum is built.
It would be great to find the people right away who could pull off the demo, but being realistic the chances of that are slim.
The stages I plan will also be a great foundation for investors to see the settings past success in whatever product I make it to be.
In actuality though I think if I can just do spell engine demo, and revise my business plan that would be enough to get the investor(s) I need. Since the spell-engine will encompass the 3d engine, and show the game play. The spell engine will be a very big feature in the game.
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I guess at one point or another most indie-rpg makers have been burnt with the 'big game' syndrome. This tends to mean even if I see the real thing, I tend to think, "oh another great another big game in my mind". You do seem *really* on to it, but don't be surprised if you encounter doubts where ever you go on the internet. So many people have tried the same thing and failed (myself included... although my project wasn't a mmorpg just a 'big' rpg.)
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Yes I expect the criticism. This has been a great way to get a feel of the pulse of the game community. From what I gather people are intrigued by my idea. I believe I am on to something.
There are many reasons for doing this.
1.I want to make this game.
2.I have a passion more for making a game, than playing games.
3.People telling me it can’t be done.
4. With this being a 18 over game, We can break some rules. That really appeals to me.
5. My goal is to bring a game to market that is unique, and hopefully set a new paradigm with where games are going.
5.I would like to think if this goes off successfully that we would be the first mature MMORPG game out on the market.
6.I would love to own my own game company.
7. I plan on developing some technology for the gaming market. This game will be used to test this technology.More than likely this technology will be developed before the game.I have a friend who fell prey to a con artist, and lost a 180 million dollar IPO. The short story is the guy took a fake id that had the same name as him that had this sterling reputation. So even background checks didn’t turn up anything.The guy took the initial investment from local family member, and community of 800k, and split. This caused the IPO to not go through, and created a chain reaction of law suits, and counter law suits. He is recovering,and we have already started searches on patents for some very interesting technology. I will go more in detail when I can. (I am sure this statement alone will raise the red flags, and send some flames my way)
like I said this post make seem like every other “big game” post, but I will see this game made. I may seem like I have a lot on my plate with my consultancy, and Freight Brokerage, but if you want something done give it to a busy person.
More to come,
Xavier
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Azza
Lowly Slime
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 5:22 pm Post subject: Call to arms |
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Greetings to all.
I am the Creative Director for the last Partnership me and Xavier had. It was a MMORPG. It failed. Why, 2 out of 4 partners had their heads up their ass. Now that talk of failure is out of the way, and we can say that Xavier and I have "been there, done that" we can proceed to the intent of the post. Having already done this before we are taking what we have learned from past failures and said venture and moving forward to a new project. Minus 2 partners with anal cavities full of cranium.
Credentials.
I wrote the business plan for the last project. I know how long it takes, how many people it takes, how much everyone makes, and more importantly how much it costs investors.
I am also a writer/art director, with commercial art experience.
We collectively have many connections already in place to do this sort of thing.
But first things first. The establishment of an Intellectual Property. From which all other products will manifest.
So that being said the purpose of this post is to seek like minded individuals to work with to add to our effort. We are not Sony Online Ent, nor are we pipe dreamers in a garage. We are individuals who want to make a difference in the gaming world. We have the dream, we have the plan and we have some experience and some resources. What we need is more of everything. And all those that flock to the banner will share in the glory. A hard fight it is, but a it's a battle that can be won. Consider how many games make it to market, sure there are many that don't, but look how many that do! Don't you want a some of that action? I do. I'm tired of playing other peoples games. I want to make my own.
Thank you for your time
Last edited by Azza on Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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BigManJones
Scholar
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have scaled this to be in stages. I am not sure if you are familiar with Wizard’s on the Coast open license of their table top game Dungeons and Dragons, |
In my opinion, unless you think you can do a game better than Black Isle studiow Baldurs Gate and related games (and Neverwinter Nights) I would steer well clear of AD+D. Now, don't think that I think that using pre existing content is a bad thing.
I'll let you in on my pet dream project - Basically, a game like your talking about but minus the mmorpg and using a different p+p rpg system; The Palladium/Rifts system by Kevin Siembeda. This system has a huge cult following, a very active community and absolutely no one doing anything with the license in video games. (There is one other system out there that would be REALLY cool, but its name I dare not utter....)
Also, I would exploit the under served gaming market that is the Apple Mac by using opensource cross platform libs like Opengl and SDL and OpanAl. Develope for the Mac were the gamers are proven supporters of rpgs then porting to win/linux using these libs will be trivial.
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Ironshanks
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Shiner's Peak
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:10 am Post subject: |
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BigManJones, I believe he was talking about developing his own RPG source in the way that D&D has developed, not using the D&D source.
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That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.
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BigManJones
Scholar
Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 196
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Ooops, thats what I get for running my mouth again. Sorry.
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TOD75
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Greetings,
Sorry for not posting. I have been quite busy. I have recruited 30 people over the past 2 weeks. I am very happy with the make up of the group. It wasn't easy but I found people with the skill set I was looking for. Some of them right from this very site.I have even recruited a game designer who has written several books, and works in the industry. Also Lead Art Developer Joe Calkins www.cerberusart.com. A fantastic artist.
Shortly the new site will be unvieled. I will keep you updated. For now you can visit the forum that has a FAQ on it. Please register, and leave your questions, and comments. I will let you all know when the new site is up.
http://idreams.tv/Artifact/index.php
Regards,
Xavier
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Xavier
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 29 Sep 2003
Posts: 6
Location: Home
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| Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:17 am Post subject: |
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I-I'll do the soundtrack, maw...
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js71
Wandering DJ
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Will you ever get around to finishing the CN ST with soooo many other projects???
I mean, you're taking on like a project a day here...
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TOD75
Pretty, Pretty Fairy Princess
Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Greetings,
I have been very busy. To all those who believed.....
www.netherstorm.com
also some art to feast your eyes on
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14693
The team has been together now for over 3 months, and we are over 40 people strong. I have a meeting in January to meet with a very warm prospective investor.
Regards,
Xavier Malysa
Pres,Infinite Dreams Entertainment,Inc.
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valderman
Mage
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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That concept art looks really good, although there are some things, especially in the first picture, that I would have done in another way.
As for the website...Flash = Hitler! It almost locked my old webcomp up!
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