[korndog]

[mandrake_is_i]

well firstly, i read over my last post and wondered how anyone was able to parse that madness. It read like I was drunk....when in actuality I was just half awake.

Ok, I was trying to get an idea of what people enjoy when using a turn based or active time based engine. What I also mean is that it's what I'm planning on using (turn based), but it's not the only way. Real time is just as valid, I just don't enjoy (personally speaking) play games designed with it.

Reiner Dyke- the problem with Pressing 'a' for attack (IMHO) is that people expect a combat system to be intuitive. 'A' rro attack is intuitive if only used as a hotkey or a shortcut to a more complicated mouse-based GUI, which would work best (IMHO) in a more PC-style RPG. Not that PC-style RPG's are bad or wrong, but not what I'm giong for with the Changeling, since it's a linear plot based game (for a reason, one that's long and complicated dealing with themes and etc). I also realised that themetically, it needs a combat system less complicated than a tactical system (like Shining Force, Ultima, etc)but something that required simple, sly interface much more akin to an actual game of a table top RPG (like AD&D, Tunnels and Trolls, Children of the Sun, BESM, etc etc etc)...which is why I'm thinking about heading towards a turn-based style system.

And also why I focused my questions on levelling up, magic, and the concept of a seamless world. I think I'm going to use a skill-based levelling up system instead of exp level building....but something more unique than my original plan or skill moving up when used...(something reflecting the way most table-top RPG's do it now, discounting d20 system of course).

I'm still arguing about the necassity of having enemies on the map- it could work well either way. Their are a few games where it works, but the majority of the games it doesn't work well in. Most likely I'll go with a classical Wizardry/DW/PhantasyStar ("classical console style") random combat (except for bosses, of course).

[Bjorn]

[Zeroth]

DOs
-Formations. Any kind of formation. It doesn't even need to change in battle. Just something that lets me choose to put my magician safely in back and my melee character front and center. I hate not being able to protect my weak party members, and it will just get frustrating.
-Leveling. Improvement is the main reason im glad i defeated the huge Rock Giant of Tyrain. I really don't care how many innocent lives i saved as long as i leveled up. All that has to happen is for my character to get stronger. I find the stats just boring. I can't get into puting 3 points into dexterity. I think skills is where the player should choose how to develope and leveling just makes every part of the player better.
-Skills. Some how you need to be able to choose which way your skills get stronger, whether you earn points to put into them or if they level up with use it doesn't really matter at all. Also they need to be able to learn new skills as the progress through the game or it will be repeative by the end.
-Teamwork. This is where most of the strategy comes in. I think most magic should be designed to help team members. 3 melee attackers and a mage that can cast a spell enchanting melee attacks with poision is better than 4 melee attackers. Ranged attacks can be used in a team too. If you place a ranged attacker in the back and then focus all you attacks on their ranged attacker then after he is dead your low hit point archer is safe to fire his deadly crossbow. Also giving enemies resistances to certain attacks means that you have to have a variety in your party. A healer adds another element of strategy. Alot of party based games have limited teamwork, personally i think teamwork is the part of partys thats the most fun.
-Items. Items are sometimes fun, though not a real big deal to me. Have a few weapons availible with different properties but just make sure its simple enough that i always know what items i want to get and make sure if im going to be getting an awesome guy that needs a new weapon soon that i have a chance to buy the weapon after i get the guy and i don't have to guess because GUESSING IS NEVER FUN. If i guess right i don't feel good because it was just a guess but if i guess wrong your game is in the trash can. So make every choice item based or otherwise a well informed choice not a guess.

DON'Ts
-Action points and walking around in battle. This does add lots of strategy with try to get on certain tiles, using something to block the archer's line of sight while attacking a goblin, or taking hits while charging at the archer. However i find this is just boring and always time consuming. Walking around just isn't fun for me since its all about the cuting, piercing, or spell casting--as the case may be.
-Huge jumps in enemy levels. You shouldn't have to fight 100 battles against squirrels because the forest temple is too hard to beat without leveling up. Make it so that you don't have to spend alot of time leveling its just something that happens along the way. This takes alot more play testing but its very important, because if i have to fight the same low level enemy for hours id rather just give up.[/b]
-Don't screw with my team. If the story is good and im getting to know my party then im really starting to feel attached to them somehow. I have a setup with my archer here and mage over here, the axe man is here and this guy with a sword here. We go through level after level together leveling up. My mage casts berserk on this guy with an axe at the beggining of every battle then the archer uses slowdown arrows on the enemy attacking my guy with the sword...and so on i have a strategy that works pretty well then you think it would be a cool challenge to lose my current team and get a new one for the rest of the game. or replace my archer with an axe guy. I don't want an axe guy i already have one!! This can totally ruin a game. Its easy to avoid too. Messing with what i am working for this entire game does NOT make the game more challenging it just makes it incredibly annoying.

[Locrian]

pretty art. Thats the only thing I can think of that makes turn based more enjoyable. Its also (IMHO) turnbased's only advantage over real time stuff. I'm sorta 180 degrees from your stance. Oh yeah and having monsters have certain weaknesses that you find out through trying different attacks against them is always fun. I'm not too fond of the limited movement thing either so I think its good that you're not trying to be too tactical with your battle engine. Though I DID like fallout and it had limited movement. Meh i dunno.

On a side note - think up a bunch of original critters for your battle system. Dragons, elves, dwarves, goblins, etc tend to make games less interesting to me. Fighting an "OMG WTF IS THAT?!!1" is more fun than fighting a goblin.