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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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No, I was only clarifying mine. My point is- why would anyone want to embrace any stereotype? By saying *I am a * something you are moving yourself into grounds of a stereotype. You are moving into a landscape of predefined conceptions and notions. I don't like the Hacker subculture for the same reason I don't like any subculture- it's needless hero worship and the embracing of a (even if it is the positive assets of one) stereotype to try and define one's self.
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"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark
http://pauljessup.com
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janus
Mage
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 464
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:12 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys! Sorry I missed the beginning of this argument, so I'll jump right in:
You're wrong, I'm right. Cocks!
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biggerUniverse
Mage
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 326
Location: A small, b/g planet in the unfashionable arm of the galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| janus wrote: | Hey guys! Sorry I missed the beginning of this argument, so I'll jump right in:
You're wrong, I'm right. Cocks! |
Way to hit the ground running. And I would further more like to add that I like pants.
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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You do realize that the jargon file has been around for nearly 30 years, yes? And that hackers have been around for at least as long as that, yes? You're a bit late to be jumping on the negative hype-bandwagon.
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Yes, and as I've said so have many other sub-cultures. It's never to late too counter-act the hype mill. Compared to novels being written about Hackers, biographies selling millions of copies and websites (as well as legions of others calling themselves such) my anti-hype is very small and insignificant compared to the Hacker positive propaganda machine.
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To directly quote the jargon file (although, given your silly opinion about the thing, this probably will be discredited):
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If M$ had a page like the Jargon file, people would be pissed off and claiming it was an M$ hype machine, and that it was biased. The text is biased, and glowing with praise, hype, and over-exageration.
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1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. RFC1392, the Internet Users' Glossary, usefully amplifies this as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular.
2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming.
Both of those definitions apply to me; i.e. I enjoy exploring the capabilities of my computer, and I enjoy programming.
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No, it's not I enjoy the capabilities of my computer and I enjoy programming- notice the exact wording he uses- he is praising one way of thinking and negatively attacking another way of thinking. There is a slight of hand made with adjectives and nouns to promote one lifestyle over another- in fact the description itself is hype.
And, would you call yourself a Hacker if there wasn't a community around it? If there wasn't a stereotype built into it? You are trying to accept the positive conotations of a sub-culteral identity. You wouldn't call yourself a Hacker if there wasn't some sort of positive mental association to an underground movement. A Punk could be "Somebody who enjoys punk rock music". But, if that was the case, what would be the point in calling yourself Punk? There is a movement involved, and a stereotype. Something you want to align yourself with. A community you want to be a part of.
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For all your talk about not caring for hype, what you are doing is exactly that: you are negatively hyping a subculture that I don't think you fully understand.
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I don't think you fully understand it. Being immersed into a counter/sub-coulter usually blinds one to the negative aspects of such a culture.
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"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark
http://pauljessup.com
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter
Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pulling out of this discussion, as it serves no point whatsoever. Nothing I can say could possibly swerve the biased position you have set yourself in, Mandrake, and I tire of hearing you attack my own position. I find it really sad that you have nothing better to do than belittle the way others choose to live their lives. Beyond that, you yourself have labelled yourself, here (in this thread), and elsewhere, so you are yourself hypocritical. Respond to this, if it will help you save face, but I'm willing to drop this discussion.
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"...LeoDraco is a pompus git..." -- Mandrake
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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sounds good to me. Dropped.
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"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark
http://pauljessup.com
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:57 am Post subject: |
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Heh, Mandrake I know it's been dead for a few days now, but I just want to add that I probably care as little as you about this whole hacker culture you are talking about. The difference seems to be that you are strongly opposing it while I prefer to just ignore it. When I say I'm a hacker, I mean just that and while there are more people that can call themselves a hacker, I do not mean to signify that I am part of some sort of culture. If any culture, I would say I am part of the Dutch one.
To me, calling myself code poet or anything creative like that just seems an awkward way to avoid a common term that apparently has grown to include unwanted meanings.
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:20 am Post subject: |
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well...actually code poet just sounded neat. Call yourself whatever you want- no need to worry about me. I'm just an old Grumpy Mulligan.
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"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark
http://pauljessup.com
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biggerUniverse
Mage
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 326
Location: A small, b/g planet in the unfashionable arm of the galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:53 am Post subject: |
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I always wanted to buy the shirt that says code poet from thinkgeek. I think development is a creative art like any other, with styles and delineated movements.
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We are on the outer reaches of someone else's universe.
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BadMrBox
Bringer of Apocalypse
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 1022
Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Chaotic Harmony, BiggerUniverse and Barok for your opinions. CH; I dropped the beard awhile ago but it grew back.
BU; I am mad! You know it.
Interesting dialouge whatsoever in this thread. Mandrake and LeoDraco dont like each other. They bitch one and another for like an eternity. And here I am calling out for a grouphug... or not... it can become lethal to be in the middle of thoose two. anyway, its nice to be back. And Ragnarok is about to updated. Very soon :).
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XMark
Guitar playin' black mage
Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 870
Location: New Westminster, BC, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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Since the original intent of this thread was to show off avatars, I would like to introduce my new persona, the guitar playin' Black Mage! I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!
Edit: sigged!
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!
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Terry
Spectral Form
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 798
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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Happy
JonA's American snack pack
Joined: 03 Aug 2002
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Fie!
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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Chaotic Harmony wrote: | | Ah... so the era of photo avatars is finally coming to an end. Pity... |
A sad turn. But maybe it's time for me, too, to hide behind an image again.
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bay
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 138
Location: new jersey, usa
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| Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Hajo wrote: | | Chaotic Harmony wrote: | | Ah... so the era of photo avatars is finally coming to an end. Pity... |
A sad turn. But maybe it's time for me, too, to hide behind an image again. |
photos are fine, provided they dont take up 20%-100% of the screen.
this rule applies to anything actually, tho i'd much rather see a big picture of a hot anime chick than of any of you <grin>
.02$
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