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Locrian
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 105
Location: VA USA
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 Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:06 am Post subject: |
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the males in FF games are just as rediculous as the females. FF character design just blows in general.
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Happy wrote: | | Interesting how you simply pass over the fact that the "muscle-head" is a stereotypical muscular male. You know, strong but stupid? But I think you're on to something with that individual thing. |
- Trust me, I complain about male stereotypes as well, particularly the "black male" stereotypes that roll around in games.
| Tenshi wrote: | | Well, it's not much different from what some young women wear today, except for that cloth thing hanging over her leg. |
- Women where?
| Quote: | | Hah. You're argument is so flawed. Middle-eastern women cover up because of their culture and religion, not because of the very real and very dangerous sand in the vagina. Most people living in that area are muslims and it's inapporiate for women to show any kind of skin. |
- Oh... my bad. *slaps forehead* D'uh.. of course everyone would want to wear a bikini in the sand. I mean, damn... Desert == sand , and beach == sand. I mean, they MUST BE THE EXACT SAME CLIMATE. Holy frihole.. Little things like 0 humidity don't matter at all! MY APOLOGIES! I'm headed to the desert in a Speedo now, I'll see you later.
| Quote: | | Leblanc is a slut. Or did I miss something? |
- I thought the uproar was because I'm a 'neo-feminist' and I'm shouting off the word slut?
| Quote: | | So in your book a female character can have large breasts with gratuitous cleavage as long as she doesn't do acrobatics, jump run flip Hiyah!! in the air? |
- Something like that. It kinda puzzles me considering that athletes are almost generically small-breasted muscular females, especially going higher up in athletic rigerity of the sport in question. I wonder why it is that gymnists are at their peak when they're prepubescent...? Gee... could it be that breasts are a hindrance? Could it be that breasts are fat..? Could it be that in general, with exercise comes loss of fat? A logical combination of those two statements leads one to the conclusion that __________________?
- Half of WomenGamers is men. And the discussions are quite interesting. And I am also posting my designs over there at times. I often seek the opinion of females on my female designs.
| Locrian wrote: | | the males in FF games are just as rediculous as the females. FF character design just blows in general. |
- I'm inclined to agree. I never said the men's designs weren't pathetic, however, my gripes with female designs extends beyond, but also includes FF, so I generally bring up the female designs more than the males. Viewing a couple of character designs for upcoming FF-12 has shown me that both men and women's designs are reaching a pinnacle of patheticism, and approaching it at about the same pace.
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- Jaeda
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Sirocco
Mage
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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the males in FF games are just as rediculous as the females. FF character design just blows in general.
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Anything past 6 is pretty much idiotic as far as character design goes. 7 had a few tidbits of acceptable design, but everything past that has been awful in ways that redefine the word itself.
And, just to keep in line with the current trend, 12 would appear to have some seriously crappy lead character designs :(
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valderman
Mage
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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I shudder at the thought of Tenshi watching something like 'Green Green' or Mahoromatic...
Please note that I also think this kind of stereotyping/have-to-be-perfect idiocy is totally stupid, I just don't let it get to me.
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Sirocco
Mage
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Viewing a couple of character designs for upcoming FF-12 has shown me that both men and women's designs are reaching a pinnacle of patheticism, and approaching it at about the same pace.
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Methinks androgeny must be a growing trend over in jap land. Or, at least Square-Enix thinks so. Heh...
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Hah. You're argument is so flawed. Middle-eastern women cover up because of their culture and religion, not because of the very real and very dangerous sand in the vagina. Most people living in that area are muslims and it's inapporiate for women to show any kind of skin. If you look at Rikku's culture and people, most everyone are "scantily clad", including the males. Well, there's those who wear full body suits too. (Both women and men.) |
Damnit. I hate it when i get sand in my vagina.
Heh, Well I'll restate some things that I've said:
1. I don't understand how people label things that are considered feminine as being sexist. It's seems that anything involving sensuality, sexuality and things that are really feminine (including breasts and hips as well as being sexual and sensual) is autimitically labelled as being sexist by those who claim to be liberating women from negative stereotypes.
Instead of forcing women to be men, why don't we try and accent the wonderful things about women and their gender? It seems that being female now a days is considered to be forcing that gender into a 'weaker sex'. Which is self defeating to the purpose. I think dressing like a slut would be more like dressing like Christina Auguilara (spl?), but I would not condemn her fo the choice.
2. There are games far worse than FFX-2 for endorsing sex-sells stereotype.
3. Why are a bunch of guys arguing over what's insulting to women? Isn't that demeaning to women? Why should we decide? A bunch of men deciding what's demeaning to women in a video game. Yeah that makes sense.
umm, i had other points, but I forgot 'em.
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"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark
http://pauljessup.com
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ThousandKnives
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 147
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Methinks androgeny must be a growing trend over in jap land. Or, at least Square-Enix thinks so. Heh... |
The funny thing is that the further they depart from Yoshitaka Amano, one of the reigning kings of androgeny, the more androgenous the character designs become. And yeah its been an increasing trend amoung teenage girls the world over in the past 5 years. Just look at the recent prevelance of harmless-clean-cut-boy-bands in pop music (ooh! that one has 1/8" of stubble! he's so dangerous!).
As most "intellectual debates" over video game issues tend to do, this argument has quickly dissolved itself of the reality that video games are a culmination of symbols, abstractions, and signs designed to guide player's mind through various realms. You can very quickly get into some pretty ridiculous claims when you start making LITERAL interpretations of pretty much anything (statements, characters, activities, locations, menu-constructs and so forth) within a video game.
Video games fall easy prey to stereotyping arguments simply because the difference between symbols and stereotypes can become needle-fine.
Both absorb a wide range of possibilities and condense them into a simplistic and more easily-to-wield form.
Both have a tendancy to cut out a great deal of resolution.
Both are, however, rather necessary for human communication and development.
To get a few FACTS straight here...
| Quote: | | Could it be that breasts are fat..? |
Actually, no. Even the largest breasts are 90% mammory glands. Thats why breast size is so genetic. If all women had to do was not exercise their pecs, there would be no need for an implant industry. But the size of breasts (although it can be altered by fat) is largely dependent on the genetically transmitted mammory gland size. That's also why they grow in size for the pregnant and nursing.
Breasts tend to reduce physical performance just like growing a foot in a year does. It alters a woman's center of gravity. With enough practice, though, women are (believe it or not) capable of adjusting their routines and miraculously overcoming this horrible blight. They tend to cause back pains though. I think hero-tough people are capable of enduring a few aches and pains though.
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Locrian
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 105
Location: VA USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | and miraculously overcoming this horrible blight. |
hahaha ah that was good
the industry probably wouldn't be much better off with any of us in charge of female characters. Tenshi's chicks don't do much for me. And if I were head of worldwide female character dev. I'd prolly be accused of promoting anorexicism (?) etc...
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 1. I don't understand how people label things that are considered feminine as being sexist. It's seems that anything involving sensuality, sexuality and things that are really feminine (including breasts and hips as well as being sexual and sensual) is autimitically labelled as being sexist by those who claim to be liberating women from negative stereotypes. |
- So... you're saying it's feminine to wear less clothes? So... a guy on the beach in a speedo is more feminine than a girl wearing a bikini, since he's wearing less clothes than she is?
| Quote: | | I think dressing like a slut would be more like dressing like Christina Auguilara (spl?), but I would not condemn her fo the choice |
- But... Christina is a pop-star. And Pop-stars can't be wrong, can they? It's the clothing of the time! It's the now! It's FEMININE to wear LITTLE to NO CLOTHING! It's great to be pissed off that you made out with Madonna and didn't get coverage! Christina looks about as bad as some of these game designs. Some are worse than her. ¬_¬
| Quote: | | Instead of forcing women to be men, why don't we try and accent the wonderful things about women and their gender? |
- That's weird, considering that as women become more athletic, they start to look/equate more to men. Small hips, broader shoulders, muscular bodies.. less bodyfat, smaller breasts. I mean... Olympians can't possibly be wrong? Have you looked at some of them lately?
| Quote: | | It seems that being female now a days is considered to be forcing that gender into a 'weaker sex'. |
- *tries to recall a book called 'Woman's Body' by Merriam Sheppard... in which she mentioned that the physical differences between men and women have been decreasing to almost a small margin by today...* Of course.. the physical differences between a Super model Barbie clone are going to be far more different than say... a body-builder... or a woman who is even remotely athletic.. I ask you, WHAT is so unattractive about showing a little muscle? It's not WRONG to say that if you wanna be strong, you should have to put on a little muscle. If this is the case.. why is it that more often than not, males have to be so bulky? Why can't they all be like women and be super-scrawny and feminine and beat up on the super-strong guys?
| Quote: | | 2. There are games far worse than FFX-2 for endorsing sex-sells stereotype |
- I never said there weren't. Doesn't excuse the fact that the Developers admitted to making the changes to promote a more popular game.
| Quote: | | 3. Why are a bunch of guys arguing over what's insulting to women? Isn't that demeaning to women? Why should we decide? A bunch of men deciding what's demeaning to women in a video game. Yeah that makes sense. |
- Last I checked you placed Noadi and I in the same category of "neo feminist" and just disregarded what she said.
| Quote: | | Actually, no. Even the largest breasts are 90% mammory glands. Thats why breast size is so genetic. If all women had to do was not exercise their pecs, there would be no need for an implant industry. But the size of breasts (although it can be altered by fat) is largely dependent on the genetically transmitted mammory gland size. That's also why they grow in size for the pregnant and nursing. |
- *sigh* And what is it that coats those mammary glands? And if the breasts are 90* mammary glands, why is it one of the 2 largest fat deposits on the female body -- next to thighs, and buttocks? I accept that genetics is involved, but it's not impossible to overcome. I also know that athletic activity , especially early on, hinders the development of breasts (mammary glands as well). While it doesn't put it off forever, they can be small for quite a long time. And I also know that some athletes with genetically large breasts get reductions....
- Going a step further, that's also saying that genetically large breasts is like a 95% majority, which is incredibly untrue. Unless we make it a point to only emphasize a blaring minority in games due to the "appeal" of this minority.
- Mammaries also grow in size during sexual arousal. But it'd be kind of silly to say that they're running around aroused all the time.
| Quote: | | With enough practice, though, women are (believe it or not) capable of adjusting their routines and miraculously overcoming this horrible blight. They tend to cause back pains though. I think hero-tough people are capable of enduring a few aches and pains though. |
- So you're saying that the majority of Olympic calibur athletes are not hero-tough? After witnessing a couple of large breasted cross-country runners tossing ice down between their breasts after a run... I kind of wonder.
| Quote: | | and miraculously overcoming this horrible blight. |
- At least you described it more like a lot of women describe it. "Horrible blight."
| Quote: | | the industry probably wouldn't be much better off with any of us in charge of female characters. Tenshi's chicks don't do much for me. |
- Meh, Oh well. I'm trying to present identifyable women -- and men.
| Quote: | | And if I were head of worldwide female character dev. I'd prolly be accused of promoting anorexicism (?) etc... |
- Barbie does that for you. Don't worry.
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Edit
I apologize that this reads as though I'm defensive or pissed or something similar. I'm really not. As long as insults aren't being thrown I'm just having fun just like ( I hope ) you guys are. :)
_________________
- Jaeda
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