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Nephilim
Mage


Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:17 am    Post subject: [quote]

Sorry; nothing too sexy to report this time. Lately, I've been doing some research on how Shockwave3D does its scenegraph. While a lot of things are intuitive with the way Shockwave3D works, this is one of the things that is not as intuitive as it could be.

I was looking into this because I wanted to improve the skyboxes I create, and because I want to have as many options open to me for overlays as possible.



The result is a quick and dirty test to learn exactly how Shockwave3D deals with multiple cameras rendering to the same sprite. As I go, I'm going to try to write up short little articles on the tricky things that people shouldn't have to figure out by themselves. Here's the first such article on multiple cameras, although it's probably of interest only to Shockwave3D developers.
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Nephilim
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Joined: 20 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject: [quote]

I haven't been doing as much work on Sacraments 3D lately as I would have liked - you know how life goes - but I did manage to get some work done on a nice, flexible game architecture and 3D loading system which will keep things nice and organized. I'm also trying to write articles about what I learn as I go so that when I'm done, I have a nice guide for others wanting to do similar 3D projects.

Here's a screenie from the current thing I'm working on: the intro animation for the game. Right now, it's just a Bezier curve driving a camera between four waypoints, but it's a nice effect.


You can see the animated version at my Bezier article. It doesn't look all that different, if you've been following along, but it does have a lot of cool new stuff under the hood - for instance, this one has the multiple camera stuff implemented that I mentioned in the previous post. There's also some new forest and town geometry in there. The music is freeware from FlashKit, so I can't take credit for that, unfortunately, but it is the sort of music I'm hoping to get into the game.
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Nephilim
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Joined: 20 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:36 am    Post subject: [quote]

I've been tinkering with Sacraments 3D some more lately, and I've made some good progress. The walkaround engine is much more robust and smooth now - you can no longer walk through walls where they come together in an acute angle, and when you go into such a tight corner, it no longer jostles you around as you push into it.

Also, as shown in this screenshot:

...I now have it working with "nudges" (press the space bar to try to open a door or otherwise investigate whatever you're standing in front of) and generating dialog boxes. Yayzers! It actually kinda feels like an RPG, now that you can bump up against things and see text to read.
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LeoDraco
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:00 am    Post subject: [quote]

It may becoming cliche these days, but it might be interesting to make your dialog boxes slightly translucent: that way, you do not obstruct anything interesting on the screen.

Or you could always have customized window frames, ala the Suikoden series.

Still, that's a neat bit of progress.
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BadMrBox
Bringer of Apocalypse


Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 1022
Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:02 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Wow. Sweet progress. :). Keep it up. And like always, I would like a... demo(!). Would like to feel the change myself.
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Verious
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Keep the updates coming, interesting stuff.
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Nephilim
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Joined: 20 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:09 am    Post subject: [quote]

LeoDraco wrote:
It may becoming cliche these days, but it might be interesting to make your dialog boxes slightly translucent: that way, you do not obstruct anything interesting on the screen.

Or you could always have customized window frames, ala the Suikoden series.


Yeah, that's just placeholder art for the dialog boxes. I'm actually planning on drawing a box border in Flash and using that as the dialog frame, so it will (hopefully) have a nice look to it. And making translucent dialogs shouldn't be much of a problem.

I'll try to get a demo out soon. Right now, a few things can be nudged, but I only have a few things in place, so unless you were exhaustive in the doors you try to nudge, you wouldn't see that aspect of the demo.

Tonight, I got "triggers" working alongside nudging. Now I can trigger a script when the player runs into an area, such as travelling to a new area.

I also tinkered with Luthien's character graphics and run animation. I pulled her legs in so she doesn't run all splay-footed, and I have her crossing her arms over her chest when she runs. Still not perfect, but it looks better than it did.

I was having trouble with her skirt geometry - it would stretch in ways that would point the surface normal away from the camera or allow leg to show through the skirt, so I just did away with the skirt (rather than adding new geometry and bones), and gave her a pantsuit. Here's the resultant outfit:



Still nice and simple like I want it, but it looks a little better, I think.
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BadMrBox
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Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I like pants! Looks good :)
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Nephilim
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:00 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Yay! Another tech demo! Now with pants.



This one includes the aforementioned features - the "nudge" and "trigger" systems, loading screen, better collision detection, etc. It also lets you move back and forth between two environments - the forest town and the cavern.

What do you think?
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Nephilim
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject: [quote]

More work tonight, this time on a new interior area : the apothecary shop. You can now access it in the tech demo mentioned above by nudging the door of the first building on your right. (The one with the apothecary sign on it.)


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LeoDraco
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
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Location: Riverside, South Cali

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:17 am    Post subject: [quote]

After having spent a few minutes in the tech demo, some observations (I apologize if these have been mentioned; I am a bit too tired right now to go searching five pages for observations):

  • Manual camera control would be a terribly Good Thing; the wonky auto-follow and rotate scheme is rather annoying (as I have to manually turn the girl around to look at things, rather than move a camera around). But, ah, I don't know how good mouse movement detection --- which would be my suggestion --- is in Director.
  • I, J, K, L seem relatively wonky for direction buttons (this is a minor observation; everyone has their preferences, but I had thought most of the (computer gaming) world had moved on to WASD since the first FPSs which used it used it).
  • Nudges are a bit awkward, as you seemingly have to be almost directly facing the object you are nudging, rather than simply next to it and facing along it. (Say, for example, you run up to a door, and stand by it looking in a direction parallel to the plane of the door; the nudge, in my most brief of perusals, seems to not work.)
  • The color seemed dark and dingy; presumably, this might have something to do with the PC/Mac gamma problem commented upon earlier in some of the images you posted.


Still, all things considered, good job.
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BadMrBox
Bringer of Apocalypse


Joined: 26 Jun 2002
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Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I cant start the tech demo. Something weird about a playback error. :(
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Nephilim
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:51 pm    Post subject: [quote]

BadMrBox wrote:
I cant start the tech demo. Something weird about a playback error. :(


You may need to bump up your Shockwave player version. Go to http://www.macromedia.com/ and download the Shockwave Player (not the Flash player - that's a different technology).

LeoDraco wrote:
Manual camera control would be a terribly Good Thing


That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

LeoDraco wrote:
I, J, K, L seem relatively wonky for direction buttons


The final version will have customizable keys. I can see that if I were to implement mouse-look, then WASD would be a better key combination for movement.

LeoDraco wrote:
Nudges are a bit awkward, as you seemingly have to be almost directly facing the object you are nudging


That is on purpose, to remove ambiguity regarding what you're trying to activate. If it were merely proximity-based, you couldn't put two nudge-able items in a place where they would be near the player at the same time, say, two doors next to each other. It makes sense to me that you face the thing you want to interact with as a means to disambiguate intent. There's also the issue of it just being weird to, say, be able to face away from something like a chest to activate it. Seems natural to face it.

That said, perhaps a wider arc of testing for nudge-able items might be in order. Currently, it fires a ray in the direction of facing and tries to hit nudge targets. I could instead, say, fire nudge rays in a +/- ten degree arc or something. That way, facing still disambiguates, but is more forgiving with the facing issue.

[quote=LeoDraco]Color[/quote]

Yeah, that's almost certainly a gamma issue, although the caves are pretty dark. Not sure what to do about that other than perhaps add a game control that lets PC users do a universal bump in ambient light in all 3D environments. As far as I'm aware, the Shockwave web player doesn't have a method for gamma correction.
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: [quote]

Nephilim wrote:
LeoDraco wrote:
Nudges are a bit awkward, as you seemingly have to be almost directly facing the object you are nudging


That is on purpose, to remove ambiguity regarding what you're trying to activate. If it were merely proximity-based, you couldn't put two nudge-able items in a place where they would be near the player at the same time, say, two doors next to each other. It makes sense to me that you face the thing you want to interact with as a means to disambiguate intent. There's also the issue of it just being weird to, say, be able to face away from something like a chest to activate it. Seems natural to face it.

That said, perhaps a wider arc of testing for nudge-able items might be in order. Currently, it fires a ray in the direction of facing and tries to hit nudge targets. I could instead, say, fire nudge rays in a +/- ten degree arc or something. That way, facing still disambiguates, but is more forgiving with the facing issue.


I pretty much figured it was something like that, and I can certainly understand your rationale; in fact, I seem to recall nudges in older 2D games functioning exactly as the tech demo does; I suppose I have just become more used to the proximity nudges of more recent 3D games. (Heh: I have been playing Kingdom Hearts 2, recently, which features automatic proximity nudges that are practically useless ninty percent of the time, but are still slightly more intuitive than unidirectional nudges.)
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Nephilim
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:29 am    Post subject: [quote]

I've updated the tech demo with some new stuff:
    A shopkeeper in the apothecary shop (no commerce interface yet, though)
    Mouselook - hold down the mouse button and drag left and right to swing the camera around the avatar
    WASD instead of IJKL
    Translucent dialog boxes with a decorative border
The walkaround engine is getting to the point now where I can drop content in pretty easily, which is nice. A small under-the-hood tweak is that I can now position models on a sub-tile basis, yay.
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