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exploreRPG
Slightly Deformed Faerie Princess
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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janus
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 Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:22 am Post subject: |
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In-game GUI looks better than it used to, editor looks slightly better as well. Looks like your pathfinding works pretty good, too.
Last I checked, you were still using fixed-size tiles, maps, and sprites, along with fixed-size grid-based collision detection and scripts with a maximum length of 3kb. If memory serves, this was because all of your 'databases' are basic-style UDT arrays. I would be interested to hear if you've made any improvements to your core architecture or any significant improvements to your feature set. How about alpha channel support, maybe some 3D hardware acceleration, or support for variable tile/sprite/map sizes or some better collision detection?
I remember you talking before about OpenGL, did you ever get it implemented?
| Quote: | ...
After talking to Akuma, I have already begun the OpenGL graphics engine. The beautiful part about this engine is it will have 1 function called glBitBlt() and it will accept all of the parameters of a standard WinAPI BitBlt routine.
Once the routine is perfect, OpenGL will be a simple swap.. (I'll still offer GDI support of course.) This is another powerful yet practical decision made at the right time in development. I would have moved to DirectX but I'm not feeling to good about Microsoft right now.
... |
Also, is that multiplayer stuff working yet? I remember you mentioning that you had been working on it. If so, is it in the demo to try out?
Which reminds me. Have you fixed your installer and uninstaller, or am I going to have to run your demo in Virtual PC? 8-)
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exploreRPG
Slightly Deformed Faerie Princess
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:41 pm Post subject: children.. |
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LOL...
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janus
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| Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: children.. |
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I see. :)
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Hajo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:30 am Post subject: Re: The Saga Continues... |
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| exploreRPG wrote: |
I could go all day talking about features, so let me shut-up and get to the screens... Thanks again for reading! :)
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I couldn't find a feature list or a detailed project description. If you can talk all day, don't hold back, let me know what's in there!
The screens look nice, but I'd like to know what's behind the scenes :)
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exploreRPG
Slightly Deformed Faerie Princess
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: Home Page |
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Features:
Did you look at my Home Page?
Behind the scenes? - Programming..
I really don't want to have a discussion about engine design or software development. It usually just starts flame wars between Kevin & myself.
Tye
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Hajo
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Home Page |
[quote] |
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| exploreRPG wrote: | Features:
Did you look at my Home Page?
Behind the scenes? - Programming..
I really don't want to have a discussion about engine design or software development. It usually just starts flame wars between Kevin & myself.
Tye |
I definitely don't want to start a flame war. Your decisions are yours, and this is your project. I'll think my own thoughts, and if you want I'll keep them private.
Back to topic: Sorry I didn't see the list. Thank you for the link. It answers some of my questions, yet I have a few more:
- What PC attributes are supported? Are they user-defineable?
- How are inventories (backpacks, bags, chests etc.) handled?
- What kind of dialogs are supported?
- How does combat work? Do weapon have different damage types (e.g. impact, cut, piercing) ?
- What scripting language do you use?
A few things are unclear to me
Support for Reiner Tiles & Sprites
What are Reiner Tiles? Can I supply my own tiles? Which sizes/formats are supported?
Supports 32x32 & 64x64 tile sizes
Is this the pixel size of tiles or the map size?
Three tile palettes for Terrain, Structures, & Objects
What's the benefit of the split (compared to one set of tiles)?
Single & Multi-Layered Sprites
Fully Animated Sprites with idle ability
I assume these work together? How many layers are supported?
Sorry about the many questions. I'm asking because I'd like to compare my project with a professional one. I'm working on a CRPG engine, too, but on a much lower level:
http://h-world.simugraph.com/
Latest version:
http://www.simugraph.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=11&t_id=27
My project is still in very early stages, and needs a lot of work.
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exploreRPG
Slightly Deformed Faerie Princess
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:47 pm Post subject: explanations... |
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| Quote: | | - What PC attributes are supported? Are they user-defineable? |
The PC Stats are similar to table top RPGs. They use a generic percentage based system that are not user-defined. Through .DLL plugins you can add any addition stats your may need. (I don't really understand the need to support custom user stats.. Its only a stat.)
But let me elaborate a little... While giving the engine user the ability to make custom stats is "cute", in all honesty the only difference we will see is someone using "Mana" over "Magic". To me, that is just silly semantics.
By using a set group of generic stats, Explorations can share & reuse information. The data-relationship between graphics object and data object (the stats) allows the object to interoperate between users. i.e. My sword will work in your game. Also, saving your character between game sequal.
Instead of building maps for Explorations, you can build a re-usable scenario. (ie a full functioning/working church scenario.) All of the logic, scripting and A.I. will export with the .EMAP file so it can be reused. (Weaponshops, Taverns, etc...) Allowing users to use custom stats at the CORE level means there is no interoperability between users, and possibly between your own games. (To me, the interoperability was a much greater reward than editting a stats label.) :) - So, .DLL plugins can take care of additional stats. ;)
I thought to myself:
If you have a MMO game where people are playing live, how will you create a new tavern while the users play LIVE? You can't drop tiles & script while they wait. The entire object has to be ready to import and use. (One of the primary reasons for my decision.)
Another consideration: Online Support.
A RPG Engine with custom stats can't offer the same online support as Explorations. By default, any game you create with Explorations will play online. The user doesn't have to worry about programming online support. Because the engine is database driven the TCP/IP transactions are totally controlled by 3 simple datatype packets. (max. 3K bandwidth uncompressed (~1K compressed), and a packet usually has to send once every 5-10 seconds.)
| Quote: | | - How are inventories (backpacks, bags, chests etc.) handled? |
You have the option to not use the Explorations "equip ruleset". The ruleset is a series of data records that give the sprite body parts for which to equip weapons.. I haven't made containers yet.. (objects that hold objects) but its one of my last features to add.
| Quote: | | - What kind of dialogs are supported? |
The script engine allows for full Windows control if you desire. There are 3 dialog options within Explorations. The Combat dialog give you are real-time play by play of everything. The game dialog is where the story appears, and a floating animated dialog for speech. The textures are customizable.
| Quote: | | - How does combat work? Do weapon have different damage types (e.g. impact, cut, piercing) ? |
Sure.. because of the database design you can create impact, piercing, projectile and cutting weapons. You can even limit classes to what types of weapons they are allowed. The database design offers boolean logic triggers. So you can make objects depend on other objects. The dependancy binds the objects together.
Explorations supports Real-Time, Phase-based, and TurnBased combat. Basically the engine is a full real-time engine. I have constructed the necessary pauses to achieve perfect Turn, & Phased based gameplay. (Phase-Based gameplay is like Fallout.) - While between turns sprites idles, leaves fall from trees and weather effects operate.
| Quote: | | - What scripting language do you use? |
The script language is custom design for sprite control and AI. In fact, the script language is script controlled. I can create new script commands with minimal effort. (editting .ECMD text files.) The engine supports full pathfinding, and AI functions such as FindCover{}. FindCover will tell a sprite to look for a location NOT visible by a particular sprite. As new A.I. needs arrive more commands will be created.
| Quote: | Support for Reiner Tiles & Sprites
What are Reiner Tiles? Can I supply my own tiles? Which sizes/formats are supported? |
Reiner Tilesets is a guy who makes tons of custom sprites and tiles for game makers. Because of the quantity of work he has donated, I added a few special sprite import features specifically for his sprites.
http://www.reinerstileset.4players.de:1059/englisch.htm
| Quote: | Supports 32x32 & 64x64 tile sizes
Is this the pixel size of tiles or the map size? |
This is the pixel tile size. Maps range from 20x20 cells to 250x250.
| Quote: | Three tile palettes for Terrain, Structures, & Objects
What's the benefit of the split (compared to one set of tiles)? |
Organization.. The basis of A.I. is organized data. The more you explain to a computer the smarter it gets. By specifying the difference in the tile/graphics you are bringing into an engine, the engine can perform more specific/intelligent functions. (Explorations is a normal tile engine, yet it handles isometric graphics. The drag/drop design and understanding of dynamic map blocking were used because of establishing simple rules.)
Terrain can be traverse. Structures generally block (on lowest layer), objects are objects.. (can be picked up)
| Quote: | Single & Multi-Layered Sprites
Fully Animated Sprites with idle ability
I assume these work together? How many layers are supported? |
Layered sprites is just an option I've added so that you can put clothes on your sprite and he dynamically changes in game. Single layered sprites are generic.
Both types are fully animated and the sprites have the abiity to idle, breath, look left & right... etc.. (up to 6 idle animations that play randomly)
The term "dynamic sprites" means that the sprites change without user help or scripting. The database design allows sprites to walk from grass to a ladder and the sprite "knows" it has to climb up the ladder. If the sprite walks in water he will swim. (This is achieved by how the terrain tiles & database information is related to sprite movement types.)
Explorations binds every graphics image with a database record(object) to act as a reference for communicating relative change at any time. The database object is the base for everything within Explorations so the data-relationship & dependancy is flawless. :)
whheeww...
I hope that answers everything.. :)
Tye[/quote]
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Hajo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:39 am Post subject: Re: explanations... |
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| exploreRPG wrote: | | Quote: | | - What PC attributes are supported? Are they user-defineable? |
The PC Stats are similar to table top RPGs. They use a generic percentage based system that are not user-defined. Through .DLL plugins you can add any addition stats your may need. (I don't really understand the need to support custom user stats.. Its only a stat.)
But let me elaborate a little... While giving the engine user the ability to make custom stats is "cute", in all honesty the only difference we will see is someone using "Mana" over "Magic". To me, that is just silly semantics.
Tye |
I mean, if I want to introduce a stat called "beauty" and e.g. allow some potion recipes only to work if the player has a "beauty" > some_threshhold, can I do that in my ExploreRPG game?
Can I add skills? E.g. having a "cooking" skill that goes up every time the player cooks a meal and that helps to improve the quality of the meals (e.g. nigher nutrition value, easier digestion)?
I've got more questions about the dialogs: do I have to write every line of text or can the ExploreRPG engine create texts on it's own? Can I bind scripts to dialogs? Can the engine choose optional dialogs depending on the player history (previous actions that the player did)?
I'm asking because I want to learn how much customization ExploreRPG allows. I mean before I pay 150$ for the full license I want to know what I get :)
Currently I'm not quite sure how you reason that price?
| Quote: |
Another consideration: Online Support.
A RPG Engine with custom stats can't offer the same online support as Explorations.
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Why not? I know a lot of reasons why my engine can't support network gaming, but the customizeable attributes/stats/skills are not among them.
| exploreRPG wrote: |
Reiner Tilesets is a guy who makes tons of custom sprites and tiles for game makers. Because of the quantity of work he has donated, I added a few special sprite import features specifically for his sprites.
http://www.reinerstileset.4players.de:1059/englisch.htm
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This link doesn't work :(
Last edited by Hajo on Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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exploreRPG
Slightly Deformed Faerie Princess
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:58 pm Post subject: info... |
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| Quote: | | I mean, if I want to introduce a stat called "beauty" and e.g. allow some potion recipes only to work if the player has a "beauty" > some_threshhold, can I do that in my ExploreRPG game? |
Have you ever played table top RPGs? They have a stat called Charisma. CHR - in Explorations. You can use that stat for your needs. If you haven't played a game with TSR ruleset, you won't understand.
Sure, you can script the stats check in the game to check the CHR. But the important point is when the potion is made you can export it and share it with friends. You can reuse it yourself, or make the object move forward in your next game with your character. With custom stats you can not. If I use "Charisma" and you use "Beauty", I'd spend alot of time converting your object to my stats system. understand? - The idea is for Explorations to have enough stats to accomplish virtually all situations. (Like the TSR ruleset.)
| Quote: |
Can I add skills? E.g. having a "cooking" skill that goes up every time the player cooks a meal and that helps to improve the quality of the meals (e.g. nigher nutrition value, easier digestion)? |
Sure.. Skills are object like everything else. They also have boolean logic ability. So you can establish your own dependancies. (Only certain classes can have skills) - You can basically recreate the TSR, or ShadowRun skillset using a generic stats system and boolean logic.
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I've got more questions about the dialogs: do I have to write every line of text or can the ExploreRPG engine create texts on it's own? Can I bind scripts to dialogs? Can the engine choose optional dialogs depending on the player history (previous actions that the player did)? |
You can script dialog as well as have Explorations build dialog.. When you build an object Explorations can analyze the object and write a Description text whenever the object is "Examined". Conditional dialog is scripted and the use of factoids track a players history. (And can be traced between games..) - Have you ever seen an engine remember information a character did in a previous game? - Explorations can..
The data-dependancy allows you to have this ability.
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I'm asking because I want to learn how much customization ExploreRPG allows. I mean before I pay 150$ for the full license I want to know what I get :) |
I've used the terms, "interoperability" and "data-dependancy" more than 5 times.. SpriteC engine sells for $500 and doesn't offer either feature... You obviously don't know what I mean or these things aren't important to you. People who know what the terms mean have offered $15,000 + 10% proceeds for Explorations (with source).
I'm not trying to sell(force) my engine on you.. You either understand the potential or you won't. You either get-it or your don't. Being that you are programming your own engine, I don't expect you to see things 100% from my perspective. I designed Explorations for me to use and it had to be powerful & dynamic. Databases were my method for getting what I wanted. :)
| Quote: | Currently I'm not quite sure how you reason that price?
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When DarkLands releases the price will probably double.(or be moved to private status) You're getting a bargain. If you don't understand data dependancy, there isn't much I can explain to you in this thread. I've often suggested a game engine contest to really show what Explorations can do. I'm gearing up for my full game production so I only have a minor motivation to talk to people about the engine itself. I'm more inclined to show what it can do, rather than try to convince people.
Being that you are a programmer, your ideas are biased to your own design. ;) - But thats good! You have obviously worked hard on your engine and it looks really cool! :)
ONE OF MY DESIGN PRINCIPLES - I said I wouldn't do it... but... :)
When I designed Explorations, I removed myself from being biased to ANY design. I never used rm2k, Sphere, Ika or any game engine. I had never played Baldur Gates, or Icewind Dale (wasn't released yet). I analyzed how a table-top RPG worked. The data involved and the way a magical sword I found in adventure #1 was functional in adventure #5. How can you make a video game carry over weapons & character info? I analyzed the roles and features of a LIVE dungeon master, (the ability to adlib, or improvise) and I designed a digital platform to accomplish these tasks. Explorations is that design..
The #1 feature Explorations provides over every game engine is the ability to keep your character. Creating a game LIBRARY in Explorations is like inventing Advance Dungeons & Dragons ruleset. -Once created you can make infinite games.
Then, you can start all over and invent ShadowRun, StarFrontiers, or any RPG Genre you desire. Simply, change the data objects & dependancy for your new objects.
| Quote: |
Why not? I know a lot of reasons why my engine can't support network gaming, but the customizeable attributes/stats/skills are not among them. |
By online support, I mean that the engine itself 100% handles online ability. A user creating a game with Explorations, knows his game plays online. (and soon MMO support) If you make a game with the stats "beauty" and I make a game with "charisma". How can your engine know to sync each stat?
The user would have to make/design the TCP/IP send to sync his custom stats. Using pre-defined stats means the engine itself "knows" all the stats so sending them is a standard operation. The data relationship internally works the same via a network.
You can have a network game using an engine with custom stats, but the send/sync design would have to be re-written for each person using your engine, because the stats for the sprite could be different. (At best, you could make a template/example routine for them.)
Sorry about the URL... The site must be down..
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Hajo
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your answer. I didn't want to make you angry, just giving you a push to explain some more details :)
150$ is cheap on one hand. I don't know how much time you've spent on that project, but if you do it for a living, I guess you'll have to sell many copies at 150$ to make a reasonable income.
150$ is expensive on the other hand. There are open source and freeware engines that are quite powerful.
That's why I asked how you reason the price. You must have features that the freeware/open source engines can't provide.
Interoperability between game modules is a non-issue for me. That's why it didn't really impress me. I understand that it is a valuable asset for a growing online community that wants to exchange objects between games/modules.
I'm aiming at allowing highly specialized game modules. Having non-exchangeable objects is ok in this environment. Currently I support inheritance on a data level, and there are some core item attributes that are present in all modules. If inheritance is used to add the module specific object data, then at least the base object data can be interchanged. But IMO it's ok to share just the images, and each module must/can define it's own item properties.
I admit I don't know what you mean by "data-dependancy" in regard to your engine. I assume it means to control functions by data, but that should be a common feature of all game engines?
My engine is "data driven", this means everything that you see or that happens in the game comes from the data files. I assume we're talking about similar things here, but I'm not sure.
The beauty stat: I didn't mean to replace CHR wis beauty, I rather meant to add it, but the example wasn't terrribly well thought. Sorry. Yet, I think I've understood why you have a fixed set of stats.
| Quote: |
People who know what the terms mean have offered $15,000 + 10% proceeds for Explorations (with source).
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Cool. Explorations looks good, but first I thought it isn't good enough for commercial games. I'll have to reconsider my opinion :)
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I'm not trying to sell(force) my engine on you.. You either understand the potential or you won't.
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I'm trying to understand. Currently I think I didn't really get the important points, that's why I continued asking. I hope you don't mind.
Honestly I won't buy your engine, regardless of the price. I've got a fulltime job, and my free time is much too limited to try serious projects. Yet, since I'm working on a somewhat related project as a hobby, I wanted to know what kind of professional products exist in this area and how advanced they are in comparison to my own projects.
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I analyzed how a table-top RPG worked.
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Without a computer even simple calculations are difficult. Pen-and-paper RPGs must consider this fact. Therefore they use simple calculations and simple rules.
CRPGs can do very complex calculations without bothering the player. I think a CRPG engine should make use of the advanced calculation capabilities.
Anyways I wish you a lot of success with your project. There are way too much (C)RPG engines out there, so it's a really difficult environment.
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exploreRPG
Slightly Deformed Faerie Princess
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Thanks for your answer. I didn't want to make you angry, just giving you a push to explain some more details :)
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I'm not mad.. I have had too much experience trying to "convince" programmers who have a biased opinion. You asked, but you really don't want to know. ("Its a non-issue.." -but I'll get to that in a minute.) :)
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150$ is cheap on one hand. I don't know how much time you've spent on that project, but if you do it for a living, I guess you'll have to sell many copies at 150$ to make a reasonable income.
150$ is expensive on the other hand. There are open source and freeware engines that are quite powerful.
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Explorations was a hobby.. It only became a marketable project when people started offering me money. My 1st release wasn't 1/2 as good as the current version and I made over $1,000 in 1 month. The price has increased to keep people away who aren't serious. Game engines get alot of attention from kids who use rm2k, and rpgtoolkit. Explorations was not meant for that community of users. (There's nothing wrong with being a kid, but if docs are given I expect people to read them. Many of the youths see Explorations and expect a rm2k editor. - I've never used rm2k, so my design was clean of outside influence.)
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That's why I asked how you reason the price. You must have features that the freeware/open source engines can't provide.
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I do.. I hope you don't consider custom stats a "real" feature. You can customize the stats of a game from a C++/VB IDE. So an engine claiming custom stats as a feature is a sign of a lazy programmer. - At least in the professional software development world. ( I am a Lead Software Developer professionally.)
A feature is something you ADD, not neglect.
| Quote: |
Interoperability between game modules is a non-issue for me. That's why it didn't really impress me. I understand that it is a valuable asset for a growing online community that wants to exchange objects between games/modules. |
Interoperability is the difference between a professional design and an ametuer one. Consider this..
MSWord uses a proprietary file format. WordPerfect does as well. BUT - Each of them exports to rtf (Rich Text Format) so the data can be shared between applications. If someone developed a word processor and only supported their proprietary format, and not .rtf, it would be viewed as an amateur piece of software. Interoperability generally requires using a 100% text based representation of your data.
Apply the same idea to all the database packages in existence. Each is exportable to CSV. (Comma Seperated Variables) - And recently, XML has been highlighted for its ability to make data & functionality portable. My import/export ability dumps to a text file that makes the object portable. If I new more about your engine I could design a parser so that any of my map objects would probably import/be usable on your maps. (drag & drop) ;)
I don't know whether your engine is free, but if I intend to sell my engine I must adhere to the standards that have been set by professional applications. Interoperability is one of those standards. If you never intend to make your engine "better", "professional", or of "higher quality" then it is a non-issue... I guess...
The amount of effort to achieve interopability as opposed to a custom stats is like comparing the amount of effort to scan/compare/analyze a list of integer arrays and multiple multi-dimensional multi-field structs. I am amazed at the way sooo many developers dismiss the idea so easily. - I assume because of the HARD WORK required to achieve interoperability.
| Quote: | | I'm aiming at allowing highly specialized game modules. Having non-exchangeable objects is ok in this environment. Currently I support inheritance on a data level, and there are some core item attributes that are present in all modules. If inheritance is used to add the module specific object data, then at least the base object data can be interchanged. But IMO it's ok to share just the images, and each module must/can define it's own item properties. |
Maybe you can answer this question for me.. How are you achieving this "highly specialized game" creation? What tools help designing, editting and decrease the time it takes to create a module?
Explorations can create "highly customize game modules" - I call them scenarios, and it also makes the creation portable & reusable. Thus decreasing development time. I think a weapon shop is something that can be created,scripted and reused without people complaining that the setup is identical from a previous game. (But you can always make 10 weaponshops to choose from) ;)
Either way... import, drag & drop..
I believe you stated that you don't support network game play. Why? If I'm correct, you don't support real-time either? Why?
| Quote: |
My engine is "data driven", this means everything that you see or that happens in the game comes from the data files. I assume we're talking about similar things here, but I'm not sure.
The beauty stat: I didn't mean to replace CHR wis beauty, I rather meant to add it, but the example wasn't terrribly well thought. Sorry. Yet, I think I've understood why you have a fixed set of stats. |
I'm sure your engine is data-driven.. Most game engines are.. What many developers fail to realize is that a well designed database has inheritted power/functionality. Just reading data from a table is not a database. How about this?
Have you ever created a map and realize that you needed a little more space? Can your engine resize a map while you are editting it? (maybe)
Once you have resized the map, you realize you needed a little more space on the left side of the map. Can your engine shift all the map data around on the map and auto adjust ANY objects placed on the map as well as any scripted map references? and every map that referenced this map?
More clearly.. The data dependancy allows *almost* all changes to be relative. EVERYWHERE, including the scripts.. Databases (good data dependancy) allows the engine to re-analyze script code you created earlier and fix it because you moved the map to the left a few cells.
People who use my engine will love this feature.. without data dependancy I couldn't have achieved it.
To me, I write code/build applications to address real-world problems & situations.. I'm not trying to make people use my engine so that can edit stats and think they are a programmer. Or give them a false belief that they "created a game engine" because they can edit some of the inner working stats.
| Quote: |
Cool. Explorations looks good, but first I thought it isn't good enough for commercial games. I'll have to reconsider my opinion :) |
Thanks.. but its not good enough until I DO IT.. :) I'm very hard on myself to show and not just TALK.. (which is why I don't like design discussions.)
| Quote: |
I'm trying to understand. Currently I think I didn't really get the important points, that's why I continued asking. I hope you don't mind.
Honestly I won't buy your engine, regardless of the price. I've got a fulltime job, and my free time is much too limited to try serious projects. Yet, since I'm working on a somewhat related project as a hobby, I wanted to know what kind of professional products exist in this area and how advanced they are in comparison to my own projects. |
I knew you weren't interested from your first question. The beauty behind Explorations is that once you create your first game Library it gets easier and easier to make new libraries & stories. Remember, interoperability means to re-use/share. A team of guys can each work on a different part of the game(networked of course) and share trees, walls, tiles all through exporting... Once the parts are saved, you end up with a library of THOUSANDS of FULLY functional parts.
You say its a "non-issue" but the idea only begins to shine when you use it. You only care that WordPerfect can export to standard formats when there isn't any other wordprocessor available. (and you need it)
For example: What does it take to create a bow & arrow in your engine? What does it take to make it zing across the screen? What does it take to make blood splatters show up? What does it take to make the bow stab in the ground IF it misses its target? What does it take to make the arrow make a "whish" sound when its fired? What does it take to make a "ugh" sound when a sprite it hit? What does it take to make the bow shatter if it hits a rock?
In Explorations? - File : Object : Import : "Bow&Arrow.EOBJ"
That .EOBJ file has all of the above functionality.. That is data dependancy. In C++ OOP allows you to build class modules. Explorations allows you to build OODM, (Object Oriented Data Models).. The methods are the same, the style of developing the model is different.
There are limits to certain areas of the OODM, due to the nature of real-time. Things occur at an instant, so divisions of time is always a limitting factor. But what you can do with the intervals you have is over-whelming.
And if someone has to remake objects like a Bow & Arrow with all of the special effects, they will eventually get frustrated.
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Without a computer even simple calculations are difficult. Pen-and-paper RPGs must consider this fact. Therefore they use simple calculations and simple rules.
CRPGs can do very complex calculations without bothering the player. I think a CRPG engine should make use of the advanced calculation capabilities. |
PnP rpgs use dice and tables of reference. And while CRPGs are nice, I don't really like games like Final Fantasy. Where sprites inflict 20,000 points of damage. Where is the realism? How does one playing the game gather a frame of references from crazy numbers like that?
I use percentage calculations because the design had to be generic.
Custom Stats and ANY other customization is available through plugins. Explorations give hundreds of powerful/great features without sacrificing customization. Once a game engine allows plugins, all things regarding the "core" design are re-opened for skilled programmers to access.
Thanks again for asking.. and I wish you the best on your design.
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter
Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject: |
[quote] |
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| exploreRPG wrote: | | In C++ OOP allows you to build class modules. Explorations allows you to build OOD, (Object Oriented Data Models).. The methods are the same, the style of developing the model is different. |
And now, kiddies, its time for today's acronym-nazi attack!
While it is fine and fantastic to acronymize certain, long-winded phrases, there often exist phrases for which a given acronym is already associated. Your phrase ("Object Oriented Data Models") is not what most people would naturally associate with the acronym "OOD"; in point of fact, I think it far more likely (especially in professional realms) that the phrase "object-oriented design" would be recognized. (At least, in a computer-related field.) Your acronym should probably be "OODM".
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exploreRPG
Slightly Deformed Faerie Princess
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 34
Location: Baltimore, MD
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject: LOL |
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I was editting it... LOL
Give me a chance to fix all my typos and grammer mistakes.. :)
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Hajo
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Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:02 am Post subject: |
[quote] |
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| exploreRPG wrote: |
I do.. I hope you don't consider custom stats a "real" feature.
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No. If you look at the "features" list of my engine, you won't find it mentioned there. It's a side effect of the general engine design, and IMO a nice one, but that's all.
http://h-world.simugraph.com/manual/features.html
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I am a Lead Software Developer professionally.
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Me too, but what does that mean?
Usually software developers judge others by their skills and knowledge. So far we know almost nothing of each other, and probably both think the other side is a beginner at best.
I guess this will go away as we talk a little longer :)
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Interoperability is the difference between a professional design and an ametuer one. Consider this..
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To clear things up: Interoperability is the ability of different applications to work together by using standard formats.
ExploreRPG isn't interoperable with anything but itself. This isn't interoperbility in strict sense.
I admit it's interoperable between different games made with it, but that's nothing special. I assume this is a feature that most game engines come with.
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I don't know whether your engine is free,
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It is. All my hobby projects are free, although most of them are closed source. H-World is currently lacking a few features that are needed in commercial projects, so I can't sell it anyways.
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but if I intend to sell my engine I must adhere to the standards that have been set by professional applications.
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Which standards does ExploreRPG use? Which other applications use those standards? Your data files look very proprietary to me.
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Interoperability is one of those standards. If you never intend to make your engine "better", "professional", or of "higher quality" then it is a non-issue... I guess...
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Interoperability isn't a standard by itself, it just means to use standardized formats to exchange data between applications.
E.g. look at CORBA and the IDL.
If ExploreRPG supports some like that I'll agree to the term interoperability.
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The amount of effort to achieve interopability as opposed to a custom stats is like comparing the amount of effort to scan/compare/analyze a list of integer arrays and multiple multi-dimensional multi-field structs. |
Huh? Scanning multi-dimensional structs isn't much harder than one-dimensional arrays. But I agree that interoperability requires a loit more effort than e.g. custom stats (which actually cost almost nothing because they are a by-product of the data driven engine design).
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| Quote: | | I'm aiming at allowing highly specialized game modules. Having non-exchangeable objects is ok in this environment. Currently I support inheritance on a data level, and there are some core item attributes that are present in all modules. If inheritance is used to add the module specific object data, then at least the base object data can be interchanged. But IMO it's ok to share just the images, and each module must/can define it's own item properties. |
Maybe you can answer this question for me.. How are you achieving this "highly specialized game" creation?
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I'll try. The engine is only a framework to tie the world togetrher. The engine defines some data structures for levels, items, monsters and such. It has a task scheduler and two kinds of AI frameworks.
All content of a game module (levels, items, monsters) their attributes and most of their functiuonlity is defined by game modules.
This allows highly specialized game modules, because the engine gives so much fredom to the module maker, lets him define almost everything that could be imagined.
OTOH this means that writing a game module involves some programming, becuase the custom functionality must be written as scripts that are used by the engine.
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What tools help designing, editting and decrease the time it takes to create a module?
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None. H-World is an engine, not a toolkit. The data files and scripts are mostly ASCII files, so all you need is a text editor.
Images are PNG images, that means to edit them you need a graphics tool that can export PNG files.
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Explorations can create "highly customize game modules" - I call them scenarios, and it also makes the creation portable & reusable. Thus decreasing development time. I think a weapon shop is something that can be created,scripted and reused without people complaining that the setup is identical from a previous game. (But you can always make 10 weaponshops to choose from) ;)
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In case of H-World it depends how different the game modules are. You can create room templates (e.g. a shop) but the AI functions of traders may be different between modules and in this case the shop won't work in both modules.
Usually room and level templates can be ported from one module to anonether fairly easily, but the mor ethey differ the more adaptions will be needed.
Same applies to item and monster data.
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I believe you stated that you don't support network game play. Why?
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My focus are single player offline games. So the engine doesn't need network support. Nevertheless I once tried to add network support and ran into a few problems. I was too lazy to solve them all, and since it isn't required for my plans, I stopped working on that.
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If I'm correct, you don't support real-time either? Why?
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This is only 50% true. You can't switch the engine to realtime with a config setting, but all that's needed is to change 5 lines of code.
I can't paint animations very well. I don't have the skill, and more important I don't have the time. I think still images go better with turn based games. So I've started with a turn-based game module, yet trying to keep the option for realtime games.
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I'm sure your engine is data-driven.. Most game engines are.. What many developers fail to realize is that a well designed database has inheritted power/functionality. Just reading data from a table is not a database. How about this?
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No database. I want to keep the project small and simple. E.g. your developer demo is 24MB. At home I have a 56K modem. I wopuldn't downlöoad a chunk of 24MB data just to look at a demo.
My project is currently ~1MB to download.
This also limits the amount of graphics that I can inlcude. E.g. I wanted add a nice book background -> 70KB image. That's too much for my project. Now the "book of memories" just is an ordinary window without fancy background graphics.
My project aims at a lower level than yours.
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Have you ever created a map and realize that you needed a little more space? Can your engine resize a map while you are editting it? (maybe)
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Since the maps are ASCII files I can resize maps while editing :)
The engine currently can't resize levels on the fly.
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More clearly.. The data dependancy allows *almost* all changes to be relative. EVERYWHERE, including the scripts.. Databases (good data dependancy) allows the engine to re-analyze script code you created earlier and fix it because you moved the map to the left a few cells.
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That's a fairly cool feature.
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People who use my engine will love this feature.. without data dependancy I couldn't have achieved it.
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If you give up the concept "origin of coordinate system = top-left corner of the map" you can resize levels easily in all directions without ever having to care about coordinates.
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For example: What does it take to create a bow & arrow in your engine?
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If you start from scratch:
- paint image(s)
- write object data defintions
- write scripts
If there is a similar bow & arrow set alreday:
- copy images, data definitions and (if needed) the scripts
- modify them accoridng to the differences between the old and new bow & arrow set.
Bows and arrowes in H-World are no sets. Bows can use different arrows. Actually a new bow could use old arrows or you could make new arrows for existing bows ... don't know if this is important here or not.
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What does it take to make it zing across the screen?
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The scripts that you get with the engine can handle ranged weapons. Just make sure the new bow calls the right script (=one line of data defintion).
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What does it take to make blood splatters show up?
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That's a feature which isn't in the bundled scripts yet. So you need to do a little more:
- paint blood splatters images
- modify the ranged weapons script to show the splatter effect on hit
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What does it take to make the bow stab in the ground IF it misses its target?
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That's in the default scripts. No additional work here :)
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What does it take to make the arrow make a "whish" sound when its fired? What does it take to make a "ugh" sound when a sprite it hit? What does it take to make the bow shatter if it hits a rock?
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The engine has no sound support yet. If it has:
- add sound defintions to the objects data (1 line per effect)
- modify scripts to play the sounds
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In Explorations? - File : Object : Import : "Bow&Arrow.EOBJ"
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Fine. But if your new bow needs new images, new sounds you'll have to crteate the images, sound and edit this file to use them.
This isn't so much different from waht you need to do in H-World. I adimit that editing text files is a bit inconvenient, but programmers should be used to it.
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That .EOBJ file has all of the above functionality.. That is data dependancy. In C++ OOP allows you to build class modules. Explorations allows you to build OODM, (Object Oriented Data Models).. The methods are the same, the style of developing the model is different.
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H-World item/monster/feature data files allow inheritance, too.
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PnP rpgs use dice and tables of reference. And while CRPGs are nice, I don't really like games like Final Fantasy. Where sprites inflict 20,000 points of damage. Where is the realism? How does one playing the game gather a frame of references from crazy numbers like that?
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I think the 20,000 points of fdameg are a designers choice. This has nothing to do with the engine IMO. A H-World module could define it this way, but so far all modules use rather low damage values mostzly in the range of 1...20
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I use percentage calculations because the design had to be generic.
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H-World moved this calculations into the scripts to allow a module writer to invent his own system. Now that's generic :)
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Thanks again for asking.. and I wish you the best on your design. |
Thanks! No worries, all I need is some more time. The engine design works very well so far.
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