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Bush's impeachment
 
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tcaudilllg
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Joined: 20 Jun 2002
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Location: Cedar Bluff, VA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:48 pm    Post subject: Bush's impeachment [quote]

He must be impeached. He must. This is, the same kind of stuff that lead to Hitler's rise. I'm not afraid Bush is trying to take over the country, not at all. I am deeply concerned though that if a general sense of prioritizing the war on terror over people's rights emerges, the way will be open for a future despot to take power, after, as happened in Germany, frivolous consideration of democratic values weakens people's will to face threats from within.

This war on terror is a total farce. It makes me sick. Sure Veneseula(sp?) and Bolivia are becoming dictatorships themselves, but after America has treated their people, looking the other way for ages as they were beaten and repressed by governments that would not have survived without America's support, there is really no reason to blame the people of those countries for following their native sons, even if their paths are evil. Indeed, I anticipate that these countries will find friendship with the al Qaeda soon enough. America has only itself to blame for its continually declining sphere of influence. In fact, I don't think that past Brazil (and even that link is shaky, hinging on the outcome of a single vote), the U.S. remains a dominant influence in Latin America.

The al Qaeda are evil itself, there is no question of that. But the sphere of evil, as darkness descends quietly over the world, is not limited to a single organization, nor even a single ideology. Evil is rooted in the accelerating trend of people to try to put up whatever barriers they can against the unknown, even at the expense of their own values. In China, we see something once thought unthinkable: resignation to enslavement. No more stirrings of revolution; even the living wills for democracy there are beginning to relent and rethink their ideologies. For all the false talk we hear of "free market reforms", people are still disappearing there, even being massacred over things as irrelevant to public policy as religion.

I have learned that the Chinese are resigning to enslavement through Time magazine... although I am coming very strongly to doubt the magazine's credibility. Time's role in the Plame affair is deeply concerning; why wasn't Time willing to come forward to uncover how the law was broken so? Why did they resist?

And why do they write this garbage? "The emergency powers that we agree to now may well become the American way for years. We may still agree to them, but it's essential to know exactly what costs they come with.", what is this crap? Agree to them? Agree to having the NSA spy on domestic phonecalls? There is a reason that someone has leaked this program to the public, and it is not for any nefarious end on their part. The reason, as will become clear, is that these calls are not being monitored only between suspected islamic fundamentalists. We already know who else is being monitored, as sure as the Pentagon has files on them already. It's the anti-war groups who are being monitored, too. It's evil, and illegal, and it is the only logical reason why someone so high up in the government would leak the existence of such a secretive program. Deep Throat lives anew, and when the Justice Department identifies him, he'd better be given a medal.

There are stiff penalties for those officials who attempt conspiracy against individual rights. One of those rights is against unreasonable search and seizure, and as surely as a person has a right to their intellectual property, so do they have rights to their private words. The penalties for these treasonous offenses range from fines, to imprisonment, to death.

At the very least, Mr. Bush must be impeached. It is understood already he has violated the law by ignoring a 1978 statute that demanded the approval of a judge before any domestic wiretapping is commenced. Indeed, he has conspired to violate it. He MUST be impeached. He has commited a felony, a "high crime", and as surely as Bill Clinton was impeached for obstructing the investigation of his relationship with his intern, so must Mr. Bush be held to account for his far more serious offense against the American people. Furthermore, he must be convicted, for he has conspired to preclude individual rights and has therefore committed treason against the constitution and the people.

If he is not convicted, and removed, and pardoned by his successor (and this will be accessible, but the pardoner must not be his vice president, because Mr. Cheney is a participant in the conspiracy, and must be impeached himself) then he must be held for trial against the charge of conspiracy when he leaves office. For that, there will be a prison sentence, and a pardon is unlikely. It is best that he is convicted before leaving office, however, as this will create a precedent to be observed by later presidents, and the threat of impeachment will be considered an authentic check on the powers of the presidential personality.

He must--he must--be impeached.
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Ninkazu
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:31 pm    Post subject: [quote]

You don't know half the story.
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tunginobi
Wandering Minstrel


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:31 am    Post subject: [quote]

If you listen long enough to him, you'll hear him say that God tells him to do stuff. :D
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janus
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Joined: 29 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:30 am    Post subject: [quote]

lol
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Nodtveidt
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: [quote]

While I agree that Bush needs to be removed, an impeachment is only the first half...the House and the Senate still have to vote for removal as the punishment of a successful impeachment. An impeachment doesn't mean "hey we're gonna kick out the Prez!", it's merely a formal declaration of charges by the legislative against the executive. It has to pass both the House and the Senate by a 2/3s majority vote anyways. If you remember back to Clinton's impeachment process, the House passed the charges, but the Senate defeated them. In this case, the Republicans hold too much power and the majority still backs this asswipe. The impeachment process will never get underway, as there are too many in Congress who support the President. However, don't count on the Patriot act being renewed...Congress is still reeling from that one, and it's unlikely that they will comply.

Also, LG...you speak of dictatorships as if it's a bad thing. Venezuela is a kickass country and it's mainly because of their government. Bolivia is a bit messed up and always has been but they're gaining ground recently, especially with the elections that just passed...their new leader will do some pretty awesome things for them. Dictatorships are not bad at all, what's bad is when you give an asshole absolute power over their country. That's what happened with Hitler, and that's what almost happened with Bush.
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tcaudilllg
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: [quote]

nodtveidt wrote:
While I agree that Bush needs to be removed, an impeachment is only the first half...the House and the Senate still have to vote for removal as the punishment of a successful impeachment. An impeachment doesn't mean "hey we're gonna kick out the Prez!", it's merely a formal declaration of charges by the legislative against the executive. It has to pass both the House and the Senate by a 2/3s majority vote anyways. If you remember back to Clinton's impeachment process, the House passed the charges, but the Senate defeated them. In this case, the Republicans hold too much power and the majority still backs this asswipe. The impeachment process will never get underway, as there are too many in Congress who support the President. However, don't count on the Patriot act being renewed...Congress is still reeling from that one, and it's unlikely that they will comply.


In this case, the Republicans will rebel against their president. They will be too frightened of the public's response not to, and besides, it's clear that he broke the law.

Bush's violations of the law in this case are clearly impeachable. (and when someone says "impeachment" in casual speech, they are referring to the accusation and the conviction) As surely as Governor Taft of Ohio was arraigned on charges of failing to report gifts from Bush insiders (and the judge could have removed him from office on the spot), so must Bush be held accountable for his crime.

Anyway, there is no question that he will be impeached. Every day, what we learn just gets more disgusting. It's as bad in that White House as it was under Nixon, the abuses are just different.
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BadMrBox
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Joined: 26 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:10 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Well, I'm really amused over the fact that the fool was elected for president a second time. Was he really elected the first time or was it a conspiracy down in california and what the heck was people thinking four years later? America is on the wrong track and so are many western countries but the happenings in Russia with president Putin are a bit more frightening at the moment.
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LeoDraco
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:17 pm    Post subject: [quote]

BadMrBox wrote:
Well, I'm really amused over the fact that the fool was elected for president a second time. Was he really elected the first time or was it a conspiracy down in california and what the heck was people thinking four years later? America is on the wrong track and so are many western countries but the happenings in Russia with president Putin are a bit more frightening at the moment.


Califonia? In the last two presidential elections, the western seaboard as well as the north-eastern seaboard were won by that other party. And Califonia is one of those states which give the full electoral votes for the state to the side that has the majority. We on the coast, at the very least, don't elect GodBoys. Well, except for the Governator. And those yokels down in Florida.
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tcaudilllg
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:32 pm    Post subject: [quote]

BadMrBox wrote:
Well, I'm really amused over the fact that the fool was elected for president a second time. Was he really elected the first time or was it a conspiracy down in california and what the heck was people thinking four years later? America is on the wrong track and so are many western countries but the happenings in Russia with president Putin are a bit more frightening at the moment.


They might seem that way, but we've seen Putin's tactics before. Things are simply more ominous here in the States, because there is so much power concentrated here and there are, as ever, forces working to fulfill all possible outcomes simply for the sake of their fulfillment. The danger in the U.S. is that something far more heinous and unspeakably more evil will take root... something that is difficult to argue with philosophically and emotionally.

Like this war on terror has already done.
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BadMrBox
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I'm so sorry LeoDraco. I messed up a bit. Of course I meant Florida not California. A rather stupid mistake.

Quote:
They might seem that way, but we've seen Putin's tactics before.

Yeah, and clearly it works rather well at the moment.
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Ninkazu
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:28 pm    Post subject: [quote]

2004's election was a joke anyway. Bush and Kerry belong to the same evil group.
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LeoDraco
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: [quote]

BadMrBox wrote:
I'm so sorry LeoDraco. I messed up a bit. Of course I meant Florida not California. A rather stupid mistake.


No problem. Heh. If I were not from California, I'm sure I would get them mixed up, too.
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NyanNyanKoneko
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: [quote]

President Bush, whether you like it or not, is one of the most influencial presidents of all time.

Not only does none of his actions warrent an impeachment process, it's mostly the far, extremist left want him impeached or removed at any cost, and it's those same people who would also simply surrender to the terrorists to satisfy their political agenda.

I'm sorry, but Bush is doing everything and anything necessary to protect our nation. Polls show that this is what the people want. Some confusion over the law isn't enough to call for impeachment. In fact, if you're against fighting terror as enemy combatants of the United States, some may see you as a traitor.

Here's what Ann Coulter has to say on the issue:

Quote:
The Democratic Party has decided to express indignation at the idea that an American citizen who happens to be a member of al-Qaida is not allowed to have a private conversation with Osama bin Laden. If they run on that in 2008, it could be the first time in history a Republican president takes even the District of Columbia.

On this one, I'm pretty sure Americans are going with the president.

If the Democrats had any brains, they'd distance themselves from the cranks demanding Bush's impeachment for listening in on terrorists' phone calls to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. (Then again, if they had any brains, they'd be Republicans.)

To the contrary! It is Democrats like Sen. Barbara Boxer who are leading the charge to have Bush impeached for spying on people with Osama's cell phone number.

That's all you need to know about the Democrats to remember that they can't be trusted with national security. (That and Jimmy Carter.)


EDIT: I want to make it clear that I don't think anyone on this board is a traitor or is trying to help the terrorists, but it's important to keep these things in mind. Impeaching the president is a serious issue with a lot of ramifications.


Last edited by NyanNyanKoneko on Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:38 am; edited 6 times in total
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LeoDraco
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject: [quote]

NyanNyan, while the idea of free speech is a good'un, politics is something that should probably not be so flagrantly thrown about: not everybody approves of "Republican" view points (so you are, in essence, just trolling). Personally, I think that all republicans in America are crazy for a variety of idiotic decisions, Bush and Schwarzeneggar being two of them. (The whole religious zealotry being the biggest WTF.)

(EDIT: As always, even I become confused after reading something I hastily writ.)
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Last edited by LeoDraco on Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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NyanNyanKoneko
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:20 am    Post subject: [quote]

I'm not a republican, but seriously, impeaching Bush is not a good idea. First of all, it's a waste of tax payer money, and time on behalf of government workers. Secondly, we have a republican controlled house and senate. No one will kick him out of office, and if he some how did get kicked out, Cheney would just continue to implement Bush's policies. Thirdly, is it really wise to try to impeach a president over such a small offense in the middle of an ongoing military action? Not really.

Excuse me for having an opinion that differs from the liberal agenda or for offering a different and valid point of view.
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