RPGDX > Forums > Design and programming > Support Mac OS X?

RedSlash · Mage Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 331

It's been a while (if anyone remembers). I've mainly been around, but been too busy and lack of motivation have really placed me on a halt. Despite, the lack of motivation, I have been able to force myself to keep up with programming and have now completed the conversion of my game engine from C to C++.

Anyhow, my question is, is it worth it to support Mac OS X (and even Linux)? My game engine currently designed to be extremely portable and is intended to provide multi-platform support (Windows, Macs, Linux). Now that my engine is C++, I find that I spend more time working out portability bugs and making vendor specific exceptions, which is alot of work, believe it or not. It would probably be easier to just stick with Windows and drop Mac/Linux support altogether. Also, I don't own a Mac, so to support it I'd have to go buy one (which is not a problem).

I'm just interested to know what you guys think of Macs and if it's worth my time to keep the code portable or just stick with MSVC and make my life easier.

Mattias Gustavsson · Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:16 am Post subject:

I think it probably IS worth supporting Mac, I sure plan to do so when I get a chance.

The market may be much smaller, but also far less crowded. I've gotten the impression that a Mac version of smaller games gets noticed more than the Windows version.

I can't see any reason to do Linux versions though, no matter how little work is involved. Every linux user I've met run Windows as well, so it's hard to take the linux platform all that serious :D *takes cover from all the flames*
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Nodtveidt · Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:59 am Post subject:

Screw 'em both. Windows is where all the PC gaming is done today. :)

Seriously though, if you think there's a market for it, do it.
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cowgod · Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject:

I plan to port my games to Mac OS X as soon as I get a computer that actually runs Mac OS X. That'll probably be next year.

I will probably eventually port my games to Linux too, but only because it should take little effort. I program in Java, so porting games to new platforms should involve relatively little work.

I really like the ideas behind Linux, but it needs to have better hardware support. There also needs to be more software for Linux, but that's kind of a chicken-and-the-egg argument. There would be more software for Linux if more people used it, and more people would use it if there were more software for Linux.

RedSlash · Mage Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 331

Market demand isn't a major issue for me as I make games as a hobby and my game is being released for free. Offering multi platform support is just a nice way of offering people extra option on running the game on their favorite platform. But making this kind offering has its cost in extra development time.

My game currently cleanly builds on MSVC express 2005 and gcc4.x Ubuntu 7.10. I use CMake for my build system and from what I understand, it can generate Xcode projects with all my source code ready for building. In theory, my game already supports Mac OS X (I just don't have a Mac to support this).

To be more accurate, I'm pondering on whether I should drop multi-platform support to ease development. It is a question of whether the small group of users of lesser known platforms are worth the extra mile.

BadMrBox · Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject:

I agree with Noddy. If it'll speed up your development just go for windows.
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RampantCoyote · Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject:

Many indie developers who support OS X report half their sales come from the Mac side of things.

Smaller market, but far less competition.
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Mattias Gustavsson · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:49 am Post subject:

That's what I've heard as well, that's why I'd like to support Mac for my games. Just need to get a Mac first :D
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www.mattiasgustavsson.com - My blog
www.rivtind.com - My Fantasy world and isometric RPG engine
www.pixieuniversity.com - Software 2D Game Engine

Scrim · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject:

Mac user checking in. I think because there are fewer commercial titles available on the Mac, Mac users tend to keep a sharp eye out for shareware/freeware/indie games, so what Mr. Coyote says about the high proportion of Mac sales doesn't surprise me.

I check Mac Game Files pretty often, for example. Getting listed there could increase your audience a fair bit I think.

Maybe I'm biased, but I think you should port to the Mac if you can =)

Hajo · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject:

One of my older projects was available for BeOS for a while. That time BeOS was an alternative OS for intel-based PCs. And I had the same experience, despite the small number of BeOS users, my game found quite a community there.

Niches are more homey than big halls some times ;)

RampantCoyote · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:38 am Post subject:

Well - look at it this way. If you can double your sales by supporting the Mac, is it worthwhile to make the port / marketing effort necessary? If it's less than twice the time and money to get twice the gain, I'd call it worth it.

I'm using an engine that was (at one point) multi-platform, before I turned it into a Frankenengine. Hopefully a Mac version of Frayed Knights won't be too difficult to do.

I haven't heard the same things about Linux versions, though. One indie developer said that he thought the Linux users had more fun arguing about his EULA than actually playing his game. They are an interesting bunch. But the BeOS story above sounds like a good exception.
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RedSlash · Mage Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 331

Well, keeping code portable doesn't require twice the time, but complicates coding in the way that you have to continually be very careful on how you code to ensure maximum portability. It's more of having to a deal with extra complication or not have to deal with it. Also, educating other programmers on how to properly do portable coding requires time as well.

But based on the comments, it seems like it may be a good idea to keep a Mac port for whatever reason, whether to sell or for PR. Though I don't think I will sell my game because 1) I do it for fun, and 2) it seems that single player console RPG games are like a thing of the past now and people have moved onto huge 3D cinematic games like Final Fantasy or World of Warcraft. Therefore, no sales for hobby developers like me :)

Mattias Gustavsson · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:30 am Post subject:

There's alway niche markets of people who like their games the way they used to be. I think you would be surprised how many people would buy a small single player RPG. It's not like they can get one of those from the game store these days...
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www.mattiasgustavsson.com - My blog
www.rivtind.com - My Fantasy world and isometric RPG engine
www.pixieuniversity.com - Software 2D Game Engine

RampantCoyote · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:48 am Post subject:

Lessee, some of the BEST-SELLING indie RPGs of the last couple of years...

Aveyond...

Cute Knight...

Spiderweb's Perennial RPG series, Avernum and Geneforge... (which always lead out on the Mac, BTW....)

I expect good things out of Eschalon: Book 1. Which goes on sale in a few days for $27.95 U.S. for the downloadable version.

I'd say 2D RPGs are still plenty marketable... don't believe the big publishers' propoganda! No, these don't sell millions of copies, or probably even hundreds of thousands of copies. But they do well.

The trick is that they are all pretty high-quality games. While lacking state-of-the-art graphics, the graphics are *nice* and they have some great virtues that make them marketable.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

RedSlash · Mage Joined: 12 May 2005 Posts: 331

Just out of curiosity, do you know if these games generate enough revenue to support development and living expenses. And also, what type of age group do they appeal to? As in, do they appeal to the younger generation who grew up with PS2's and XBOXes or the older group who grew up playing these types of RPGs?