[JimKurth]

I do like games where combat is involved and yet I hate having to waste time leveling up to get past a certain boss. I'd like to only have the battles as directed by the game's storyline (no random enemies popping up out of nowhere on a map screen or in a cave/dungeon), however I think that would lead to a less interactive game experience and also less excitement overall as the game becomes too lifeless. I know there are people reading this who have RPGs that know of better ways to make better use of their combat engines.

What do you think? How are your RPG's avoiding the idea of requiring lots of non-essential battles to proceed? Or in simpler terms, how to make an RPG not suck and not be boring at the same time? I read the article titled, "how to make an RPG not suck" which gave some general common-sense concepts.

PS: Now, I'm an Egg-Sucking Troll Humper. Kick ass!

[Ninkazu]

Well I can't specifically talk from experience on how to do these systems, but I can tell you what comes to mind. Use a scaling difficulty system such that enemies level with you. Since grinding should be rewarded, make the distance between projected difficulty and actual ability to beat that difficulty a logarithmically scaled value to apply to enemy stats. This means that as you go up higher in levels, it improves your chances, but not as much as a simple linear scale would have it.

[Rainer Deyke]

I don't think a game without random battles would necessarily be lifeless at all! Some ideas:

• Have lots of pre-scripted battles. Actually too many pre-scripted battles is as much of a problem as too many random battles, but if you feel that the game needs more fights, just add them. No need to resort to randomness.
• Ambush. Have unique scripted battles where the monsters suddenly appear from behind a rock. Just because the battle is scripted doesn't mean you have to show the player where it will occur ahead of time.
• Have scripted battles that only trigger on the second or third time you enter an area, or that trigger based on a random chance. It's still a unique scripted battle that only occurs once in the game, but it'll hopefully catch the player off guard and make the game more exciting that way.
• Add more interactivity outside of combat. Give the player the chance of turning an ambush against the monsters by sneaking up on the monsters that are lying in wait. Put traps in the dungeon. Put time pressure on the player.
• Turn monster encounters around. Create scripted battles where a group of monsters encounters the player while the player isn't moving.

[JimKurth]

what about enemy knowledge? what I mean is... (can't really describe it, let me give you an example):

you fight some lizard creature. you kill it normally. then you fight another one down the line but this time, you use a certain skill or attack and kill it within x-many turns. This would give the player a kind of AI to be smart when fighting this enemy again (could be used to increase rate of dodged attacks for later battles with this enemy, or it could be used to hit the enemy at a specific spot that you can't normally select when attacking that will deal huge damage).

Each enemy would have a variable to it that will let the player know when the encounter happens again to execute specific actions/skills upon the command "fight" or "skill" sort of like a 0-4 range (0 being no knowledge, and 4 being smartest/fastest way to kill them instantly).

Well, that's just my idea I am working on with my combat engine.

[RedSlash]

I think by decreasing the amount of experience received as you level up for the same enemy is usually used to prevent you from grinding in the low level areas.

Although I personally like having pre-scripted battles (because I am bored of games with repetitive random battles), I think having a bit of randomness here and there would be good.

[JimKurth]

[Jon Alma]

[Nodtveidt]

If you've ever played Ys I & II for the PC Engine, you'll be familiar with the "less experience as you grow" method. That is to say, enemies become increasingly less valuable XP-wise as you increase in level. It's a pretty good system and one I wish was used more often. I'm using it in my current major RPG production for the DS.

Enemy level scaling is a completely bullshit technique IMO. Lunar SSS used this for bosses and as a result, was one of the reasons the game completely sucked ass (amongst at least a dozen other reasons). One of the whole purposes of leveling up is to become more powerful than your opponents; that is the advantage of spending extra time fighting more. Removing this basic advantage destroys any real feeling of power you might have, but of course, some would argue "but it shows I can win by outsmarting my enemies!". Fine, if you like that kind of thing, go for it. But I know for me, and for just about every other hardcore RPG player I've known IRL or online, the ability to rise in power above your opponents and then beat them down is very satisfying, and really gives you a sense of strength and domination. Level-scaling generally makes it so you're just squeaking by, just barely making the grade. Where's the sense of accomplishment if you're only "just barely capable"?
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If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

[Nephilim]

The thing to remember about your typical "grinding" scenario in RPG's is that it's really a way for the player to:

* ...control the difficulty of the game. By fighting weaker monsters until he or she can more effectively take on stronger monsters, a novice or young RPG player can more easily make it through an RPG title.

* ...control the length of the game. By "dawdling," the player ekes more time out of the game, and feels like he or she "saw more" of the game. In other words, blazing through areas might cause you to miss some monsters, events, or hidden areas, while "grinding" on an area typically reveals nearly all such things. This is an especially compelling aspect for the younger RPG players, who often enjoy the game for the game's sake, and may not care so much about plot advancement.

* ...get a sense of "collection." Some players like to "collect" stats in addition to objects and storyline events, such as trying to "max out" some stats by the end of the game, or whatever. (Also, if you have variable powers in the game, this helps the player make up for poor advancement choices early in the game.)

* ...control the entropy of the game. This is the big one. RPG's often "train" players to grind by punishing them when they don't. For instance, suppose you load your game in area "A", and have found the path into area "B." Then suppose you move directly into area "B" but fail to make it to the save point, getting party KO ten minutes later. Do this three times, and a half hour later, you're no futher along than when you started, and you turn around, dejected, to go grind on area "A" for a bit anyway because you can't make it through. On the other hand, if you'd spent that time grinding, then you'd have 30 minutes of XP under your belt, AND you can handle the monsters in area "B" now.

If your RPG has nonubiquitous "save points," then the above scenario means you risk losing a lot of play time without any advancement in the story or character. For people without a lot of time to spend, or without a lot of patience, making them retread their steps over and over is a sure path to the trash can for your game. "Grinding" is a way to smooth out that "go back to the last save point" danger, because you retain benefits from the time spent grinding, instead of none from the time spent failing to make it to a save point.

Note especially that schemes that diminish XP awards over time for grinding will very often simply translate into forcing players to spend even more time grinding to get to the point where they can advance, making for a more tedious experience. Unless you provide some mechanism to reduce the reasons for grinding in the first place, it's not sufficient to just make it less productive. What player wants their time playing an RPG to feel unproductive?
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