[triptych]

http://www.arcceleste.com/index.html

It looks to try to do a lot of genre-busting when it comes to RPG cliche's. I heard it was demoed at PAX but I can't find any screenshots or more info... Seems like it would be something of interest here.

[Rainer Deyke]

There's not enough information on that page to draw any conclusions about the actual game, but I already hate the marketing.

• There's nothing special about averting a bunch of common tropes. I could make a similar list for even the most clichéd rpg imaginable.
  
• Even the best high-level concept in the world doesn't guarantee that the story is competently told, much less that the game is actually enjoyable. And an original high-level concept isn't necessarily even a good high-level concept.
  
• If all you can say about your game is what it doesn't include, then maybe you shouldn't be talking about your game at all.
  
• What the the site does say about the game is neither particular original nor particularly good. It's more like a different set of common tropes, no less cliché than the tropes that were averted.
  
• Damn it, I like some of the tropes that this game tries to avert!

[Nodtveidt]

But I LIKE busty love interests! I'm sure I'm not the only one who was fixated on Tifa's erm...ample charms during the end movie of FF7...
_________________
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

[DeveloperX]

[Nodtveidt]

My flagship RPG features a busty love interest but that doesn't make the game cliche. It's not the individual cliches that make the game good or bad, it's the way the elements of the story come together along with how well the game plays. FF7 is a great example of many overused cliches together in the same game...so why is it consistently voted one of the greatest RPGs of all time? Because of how the various elements come together in a (mostly) cohesive package. It matters not the cliches...the characters had excellent development and were easy to sympathize with. But this game they're promoting...looks fucking boring. I can tell from the character descriptions alone that this is going to be a dull story. Besides, if it's PC and Xbox 360, then it's likely going to be coded in slow-ass XNA. I'll pass.
_________________
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

[Rainer Deyke]

OT, but FF7 was the one Final Fantasy game that I started to play but never finished. I found the story unfocused and tedious with its constant digressions, I hated the artwork, and I found the pseudo-modern setting boring. (The Final Fantasies I did complete were 1, 4, 5, 6, and 9. In the case of 4, 5, and 6, I completed them twice.)

[DeveloperX]

[Nodtveidt]

Well, not everyone likes it. Some people prefer the more classic style of the earlier games, and Square's attempt at a classic resurrection in 9. Regardless, 7 is one of the best RPGs ever made, despite its flaws...but all games have flaws.
_________________
If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

[Rainer Deyke]

To be fair, I thought Final Fantasy 7 was pretty good, despite the horrible low-poly character models, up to the point where the party leaves Midgar. At that point the story pretty much fell apart for me. I expect that the main plot picks up again at some point later in the game, but I never made it that far.

I'm not going to accept any excuses for the ugly low-poly character models in Final Fantasy 7. Yes, it's an old game, but Final Fantasy 6 is older and looks great. I don't approve of the move from 2D to 3D in the first place, but if you're going to go 3D, at least do it right.

Pictures speak louder than words. In case you've forgotten, this is what Final Fantasy VII really looks like:

[Nodtveidt]

[js71]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I sort of think the style of models (oh yeah that's right I called it a 'style' -- there will be blood! :p) used in ff7 are a kind of missing link between the ff6-style sprites and the (comparatively) realistic people models used in most 3D RPGs thereafter. They have a similar kind of limitation with expression, movements, etc etc... sort of gives it a bit of that old-school RPG 'pantomime' feeling that I think actually held a lot of intangible quality for me.

I do prefer 2D RPGs over 3D ones as well (same goes for most styles of games because I'm a stuck-in-my-obsession pixel artist), but as far as 3D RPGs go ff7 has some of my favorite graphics. A lot of the rendered backgrounds are still ridiculously beautiful today, I think. Some of those cobbled-together Mako Reactor interiors just look amazing.

Err, guess we've wandered off a bit... (not that I mind a good FF discussion though. Just found an ff3(6) cart for $25 so I'm pretty into the subject right now, hehe)

Regarding Flare, I agree that it's kind of up in the air as to whether it'll be anything special or not. Advertising lack of cliché so strongly is a pretty silly move... That's something that should be handled subtly and not flaunted as the game's selling point. Also agree about the fact that clichés can be very helpful and work well if done right (though I'm gonna have to put myself in the minority and say that 'busty love interests' do nothing at all for me, I found Tifa to be just utterly ridiculous :p)

I'll have to wait and see. I'm still undecided on Black Sigil, a recent DS game that used its classic SNES RPG-style graphics and nostalgia as the main points of interest, so it could go either way.

~Josiah

[tcaudilllg]

I remember when Unlimited Saga did away with all the cliches, and it was one of the worst RPGs ever. (probably the worst ever produced by Square).

[RedSlash]

Ok, I've decided what my next game will be.

It'll be about a teenage hero who wants to recall about his forgotten past.. and sets out to fulfill an ancient prophecy. Along side with his cute furry koala bear side kick, he meets a busty princess as they try to decipher the secret to the lost civilization and fight against the handsome prince who tries to defy them.

[DeveloperX]

[Malignus]