[entivore]

I was thinking, it might be nice to combine my element system from Tukton's First Holiday (a crappy minirpg I made and submitted to that HoV or whatever), with weapon choice to decide when you learn new techniques.

For example, if you got a level 10 in Light and were using a sword, you'd have access to the cross slash technique. Change that to a shield and you might have some sort of Blinding Light technique. If you perhaps had level 15 in wind and level 15 in darkness and were using a sword, you might get access to "Cutlass Supreme", etc. It'd be difficult to get all techniques since you can only equip 1 or 2 weapons at a time, and also it's difficult to raise opposite elements to any reasonably high level.

The problem being the sheer number of techniques. See, there are 8 elements (Light, Darkness, Fire, Ice, Wind, Earth, Impetus, and Poison), and 8 main weapons (Sword, Staff, Axe, Spear, Bow, Mace, Shield, and Claw). If every weapon/element combination had just 1 technique, that's already 64 techniques needed. When you start coming up with 2 element combinations, that could easily hit the 100,000 mark (eep!). Any suggestions on how to alleviate this problem?
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*Only in darkness can one truely shine*

[Mandrake]

One way to do this would be too limit the combinations by creating compatile and incompatible types. Like for example, light and sword will open up a certain technique, but fire and sword won't. By creating a compatible/incompitble chart you could cut down on the vast numbers of combinations quite easily.

[entivore]

Ah, good idea. Ok, I'll go ahead and do that right now. Each element will have a highly compatible weapon, and two incompatible weapons.

Also, it might be good to have some generic techniques that depend more on the weapon than the element. Like maybe learn Hammer Blow at level 10 Earth OR at level 15 Fire.

Ok, let's see

Light - Compatible with Sword, Incompatible with Claw, Bow
Dark - Compatible with Staff, Incompatible with Shield, Mace
Fire - Compatible with Axe, Incompatible with Staff, Spear
Ice - Compatible with Spear, Incompatible with Axe, Claw
Wind - Compatible with Bow, Incompatible with Axe, Mace
Earth - Compatible with Mace, Incompatible with Bow, Staff
Impetus - Compatible with Shield, Incompatible with Spear, Sword
Poison - Compatible with Claw, Incompatible with Shield, Sword

That lowers the number from 64 to 48.

Hehe. Any more ideas?
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*Only in darkness can one truely shine*

[Jihgfed Pumpkinhead]

     Instead of implementing it so that you could have, say, an item/element/element (sword/wind/darkness = "cutlass supreme"), stick with a base item/element system, to which you could add additional elements which would modify the attack according to set rules (sword/light + poison = "poisonous cross-slash" (like regular cross-slash, but causes poison); sword/light + earth = "heavy cross-slash" (like regular cross-slash, but does a little more damage)). That way, you could actually allow the user to combine as many elements as he likes, without having to worry about every single combination(sword/light + poison + earth + fire + wind = "poisonous heavy firey darting cross-slash"; though the names might get a little unmanageable). I don't know how you manage the ability to combine items/elements (are elements a finite resource, a replenishable one, or what?), so I don't know if this system is easily abusable.
     Also, it would be very nice if you'd work it so that certain of the additive elements, when combined, produce unusual effects (sword/light + poison + earth = "rotting cross-slash"; don't know quite what that would do, maybe turn the enemy into a zombie, or something?). These would be essentially "hidden" combinations, and would go a long way towards encouraging the player to experiment with different combinations, rather than sticking with one that's tested and true. The nice thing is, you wouldn't have to create one of these for all of the combinations, or even 1/100 or some absurdly small amount of them, because you always have the simple additive element system to fall back on.
     Good? Should lead to lots of variety, I think, while being easy to create/program/implement, and for the player, learn and utilize.

[entivore]

Excellent Idea! I could have like a row of 10 prepared custom techniques, where the player picks his weapon, his elements, and his intended target (ally, melee, or long range). Then they can just activate it in battle and see what it does. It might do something special like be a whole new technique, or, more likely, it might just be a modified base technique. Oh yeah, I could even let the player name a technique when he discovers it. Then I'd only have to name the techniques that monsters and other enemies start with.

I can already envision it now. You go to a special location called the training yard to access the create your skills screen. Pick a slot. Now select the weapon type this skill will use. Then select how many MP will be put into each element (limited by your element level, so if you have level 6 in Fire, you can only put 6 Mp in the fire category), then pick the target type. The more MP you pump into a technique, the more MP it would cost to use that technique, and the more powerful the element's modification effect would be.

Hmm, you happen to hit upon a gold mine combination! You selected Bow, Wind 12 Mp, Fire 2 Mp, Long Range. That meets the requirements for Wind Arrow, which might be Bow, Wind 10 Mp, No Earth, Long Range. You now have access to the powerful Wind Arrow attack! You could even find scrolls of ancient techniques lying around that teach you techniques. Hehe.

Now the only thing to consider is what general modifications each element should have. All of them must be desirable, so let's see. Here's a first impression of ideas. Not set in stone of course.

Light - Reduces negative effect on allies and positive effect on enemies.
Fire - Raises technique power
Wind - Lowers time technique takes to execute
Impetus - Raises EXP gained from using the technique
Darkness - Makes the technique difficult to block
Ice - Raises technique range
Earth - Raises defense while using technique
Poison - Increases chances a technique will weaken enemy

Then, certain combinations of elements could have various effects. . .
Fire + Wind = Raises Area of effect of a technique (possibly hurting you too)

Ice + Earth = Convert the nearby free ether energies into crystal item form. What item depends on the technique.

Light + Fire = Do extra damage against undead and dark enemies.

Dark + Ice = Slow down or inflict despair on nearby creatures.

Impetus + Light = Add a blinding effect to the technique.

Impetus + Fire = The effect of the technique persists after it is done (for example, shoot an Impetus fireball and the fire keeps burning in the impact zone for a little while, doing extra damage).

Well, anyway, there are a lot of possibilitiy to think about when I have more time. Any more ideas, hehe.
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*Only in darkness can one truely shine*

[mandrake@indie-rpg.net]

I say this sounds great. I always love spell systems/skill systems/etc that involve creation from the player. It makes me feel like I'm more involved in the world. Just make sure the system is intuitive to use.

[entivore]

Hmm, ok, so how does this sound:

There are 8 "base" techniques. The only requirement is you equip the right weapon. Things like Long Shot, Slash, Pierce, etc. You can power them up by adding elements. Add 4 fire to raise the pierce's attack power for instance. You can modify each base technique to become an elemental technique by pumping at least 5 Mp into an element. For example, 5 fire creates flame pierce, which deals fire elemental damage. When more than one element has more than 5, the element with the most does the modifcation. 8 fire 6 light = flame pierce. If two elements are tied, then neither modifies it. 8 fire 8 light = pierce.

There are 48 normal techniques. One for each compatible weapon element combination. You must learn these by creating and executing a base technique that meets the requirements. For example, Wind Arrow might require 10 wind, bow, and no earth. Once you learn it, you can use it as a base in your technique modifications. Each of these techniques can be modified with a secondary element, which must have at least half the requirements of the main element invested in it. For example, 5 Fire added to Wind Arrow (needs 10 wind), becomes Explosive Wind Arrow. If you add more than one element, the highest element becomes the modifier. 7 Fire + 5 Light added to wind arrow = Explosive Wind Arrow, but 7 Light + 5 Fire becomes Particle Wind Arrow.

Then there are an undeterminate number of "lost" techniques. lost techniques are found when using modifications of normal techniques. Cutlass Supreme for example, requires a high level darkness, wind, and a sword. These techniques cannot be modified (but you can still pump up the MP in various elements to improve it though). They are not guarenteed to be evenly distributed across the board of possible combinations either. Some of these will start out named (the ones that enemies have), and some will allow you to name them as you find them.

Finally, there are spells. Spells are weapon neutral techniques that you automatically master as your element levels go up. Things like Flare, and Firestorm. Spells are inferior however, because they aren't powered up by your strength or weapons, only by your int. Also spells cannot be modified.
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*Only in darkness can one truely shine*