[Nodtveidt]

I don't know how often this subject gets approached, but...have you ever noticed that almost every RPG out there uses the concept of good versus evil?

When I was first developing WOS, I was under this cliche too, but the focus of the game's polarity has shifted dramatically over the last year. The main character, Jareth, is not a "good guy"...he was studying to be a Mage Of Light, but this is not "good"...it just meant he was learning white magic. Actually, it was because he was too mentally weak to handle black magic. WOS isn't about good versus evil, it's about two people's vengeance, one of which is evil (Sona) and the other might as well be just as evil (Jareth). His quest is selfish, not noble...he does things for his own personal gain and solice, and in time, he learns to conjure visions of incredible black magic and demon-summoning. He is out for himself, to avenge his own life and to prove that he is powerful. Although his last actions in the game could be considered "noble"...once again, he does it for his own personal gain, not for the good of others...although it has this effect anyways. He is merciless in his quest to kill everyone and everything who stands in his way, he often ignores other's pleading for help because he has "his own things to do", and he makes an unstable ally.

I am just wondering how many other indie RPG developers are trying out this kind of concept in their own games. It might be worth looking into if you desire to develop something somewhat unique. :)

-nek
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If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

[entilazy]

Good and evil are subjective. In my games I try not to present a character as good, but rather, as respected or beloved by the people (who also are not presented as nessisarily good).

Good and Evil is like black and white, and so it appeals to simplistic "us vs them" instincts that is prevalent in your average person, though possibly less prevalent among the types of people who like rpgs.

I only get bothered when the villians don't believe in what they're doing. For example, in that GIJoe movie, the guy actually says "Evil will prevail!" in joy.

[lazyshanks]

I think it should all be about the moral background of each character. As long as both sides are human there will be good and evil to both. It's their actions that will really decide weather a person is doing good or not.

[Ninkazu]

I'll write this quickly because I'm watching a show which is right now at a commercial...

Indie games should get away from good vs. evil because it's cooler, but pro games go with it so people don't object to the idea of being the "evil" protagonist and not buy the game. toodles!

[grenideer]

ya, Diver Down doesn't treat things in such a black and white manner either. A lot of people, including the main character, have their own motives.
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Diver Down

[Barok]

in FFVIII, Squall said to Irvine,

[Suchiiben]

Yeah, one side being "I will destroy this planet," and the other being "I will save this planet."

That's why I don't like the Final Fantasy series. They all use that exact same structure.

[grenideer]

Yes! That's why I hate the Final Fantasy series also, even the movie- it's all just so unimaginative.

Besides, the fact that there's no good or evil means that there are NOT just two sides. The whole point is that there are many degrees of 'sides' and motives.
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Diver Down

[Guest]

The movie wasn't clear cut at all...I don't think there were any pure evil characters. Just thought I'd point that out.

[Modanung]

I thought the movie was great, I just don't like the games that much.

[Ironshanks]

Just to keep this on topic:

I personally don't like anti-heroes. I like it when characters have to deal with difficult moral choices, and even slip up occaisonally. But I also want to empathize with the protagonist I'm playing as, and if the person is an ass I can't do that.
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That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.

[Ninkazu]

Just to throw this back off topic ;)

Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was one more movie that had 99% graphics, .00000000000000000001% story, and the rest being the hot chick.... oh crap, I should give her more of the percentage. Bah, screw it.

I love FF games somewhat, but I have played games with much better stories. I have yet to play Xenogears or Suikoden though...

[Modanung]

Just to keep this sort of off topic.

I totally dissagree. The story wasn't that bad, I'd say it was 99% graphics and 50% story. The chick wasn't even THAT hot.
I think it was better that an average movie, I mean: If you'd pick a totally random movie out of a shop (if there was only one of each), most of the times you'd pick a movie worse than FF.

[darkpagan]

It is globally agreed upon that there are are 4 MAIN types of RPG plots:
Evil Empire(FF7)
Religion(BOF2)
Artifact of power(Zelda)
Ancient Evil(All of the above and more)

Honestly it gets annoying especially when the main carachter is constantly recycled:

Tough guy who eventually turns good(Cecil,Cloud)
Dumbass kid(Zelda)
Reclusive mysterious guy with heart of gold(Squall)

I mean I find myself using these clichés too and if all of you sat yerselves down and thought about it most of you have these in your RPGs too but my advice is you cannot AVOID these clichés completely but why not keep them and remain original at the same time?Also why don't many RPGs have female leads?
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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

[Jihgfed Pumpkinhead]

     Am I the only one who thinks that moral relativism get's really old, really fast? Sort of like extreme forms of Skepticism: okay in theory, but in practice it's rather tedious. Oh, well, it's all the rage today, I know, so who am I to fight against the tide? And geeze, do I sound old, or what?
     As a sidenote, good vs. evil stories are certainly prevalent, but you know, that's not really the main theme of RPGs. The main theme is power. The good vs. evil junk is just a background against which this main theme plays out. My point is, that whether the PC is good or evil is not all that central, so go ahead and do what you want. Just don't make him an asshole, or noone will want to play.