[Jihgfed Pumpkinhead]

     I have some issues with games (particularly independent ones) that require extensive installation. Tell me if I'm way off base, here.
     Often you'll get a new game, and the first thing you have to do is run some convoluted installation program which sends a shortcut to your desktop and the Start menu, and occasionally tampers with your registry and system files as well. It's happened with a couple of the games I got from RPGDX, but I don't remember which, so I can't name names.
     Do we really need all this? Because to be honest, it really annoys me, since I like to keep my desktop and Start menu as free of clutter as possible.
     I don't really think it saves time, since eventually we're going to delete the shortcuts, which I think takes about as much time as navigating. Also, I usually like to take a peek at the game's file structure, so I have to navigate over there anyway, eventually.
     I mean, I understand if the purpose of it is to facilitate things for people who don't get around too well on their computer (and therefore reach a wider audience); and that's fine, but I'd appreciate a check-box option, or something. Also, if you're zipping the file and including an installation program, well, I think anyone who can unzip can navigate his hard-drive too (but I'm assuming; I could be wrong).
     Regarding messing with the registry and system files and such, I really, really like to be asked about stuff like that. Even if I haven't the faintest clue what's going on, even only if I'm gaining only the vaguest semblance of control, I'd still like that comforting dialogue box saying "Blah-blah needs to update c:\windows\system\such-and-such.bat". I realize this is probably a lost fight in the case of the registry, but regarding system files I think people can change. If you want to argue that depriving the user of choice helps neophytes, I think most people will accept whichever option you recommend to them. I know that sometimes tinkering might be necessary, but the least you can do is warn me about it, so that if something does go wrong and my computer no longer starts, I know what files might be culprits.
     If you're just doing the fancy stuff to look professional, please slap the name "Microsoft" on your game and add 10mb of extraneous code instead.
     The only real reason I can see for the separate installation program is if you're using some weird compression and we can't uncompress it with something standard. If that's the case, that's fine, and thanks for saving our modems a little trouble.
     If you really like all the fancy stuff above, how about just making it optional, or better still, have for download a "default" and an "expanded" version, with the expanded version having simple unzip/copy files installation, and (!) perhaps added features only developers and such would have use for, like maybe the ability to modify your scripts or something.
     Am I tilting at windmills, here? I mean, am I the only one who finds this stuff annoying?

[Rainer Deyke]

I mostly agree. I like programs that I can just unzip and run (or even better, that I can run directly after downloading). However, I'm trying to reach a larger audience, so I distribute an installer. There's no excuse for putting the installer in a zip file, that's just twice the amount of work for the user.

I'm very strict about not messing with the registry or replacing system files (beyond the bare minimum required for uninstalling the program through the Add/Remove Program dialog box).

I like installer programs that let me pick where to place the shortcuts in the start menu. Something like ganes\rpgs\warriorquest is much better than just warriorquest, but the hierarchial system is not standardized, so you have to let the user pick. Unfortunately my installer-creator won't let me do that.

[Bjorn]

In my humble opinion, installers are mostly useless overhead for small independant games. I really like just running the stuff right from the ZIP. A modern archiver is sane enough to extract all files to a temporary directory and run the EXE I double clicked from there, and will even add changed or added files (like savegames) to the zip afterwards.

[BigManJones]

I whole heartedly agree, I hate installers not just for games. Especially for a little game you just want to dl and try. The worst is when they don't uninstall properly.

[DarkDread]

I don't like having to deal with installers myself, but how many people do you know that might enjoy your game, that also wouldn't know the first thing about zip files?

It's happened to me so many times with mysterious song ''how do I install this?'' e-mails were very common... that I've decided to include them... and until I find a free installer that makes desktop/start menu stuff optional for the user, instead of either in/out for me when I pack it, I'll leave the install with start menu/desktop icon stuff. I never fsck with registry settings though... If you need to reboot to play a game, it's usually not worth it... or worse yet, it makes you think what kinds of crap is being installed behind it.
_________________
"Goth is a way for ugly people to be interesting."

[entivore]

I agree. I also hate games that make you download more than one file. I can understand why you'd want to do that (no need to redownload all the files upon an upgrade), but it's still a hassle. There was this one game I downloaded and I found out it only had the "runtime" and not the "game data" or something and I couldn't use it. Needless to say I didn't bother to get the game data and simply deleted it.
_________________
*Only in darkness can one truely shine*

[janus*]

NSIS NSIS NSIS NSIS.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll never look back. Unobtrusive, flexible, small, and very capable as an installation tool. The open-source aspect doesn't hurt either. When I did actually find a bug, I was able to fix it myself and submit the fix and get it submitted to CVS.

[Jihgfed Pumpkinhead]

     I suppose I can understand where DarkDread's coming from, and I certainly wouldn't want to suggest anything that would make indie-RPGs an even narrower market than it now is. Used to be I thought that everybody should learn to unzip stuff (and such), and I'd be amazed at people who've had computers for years, use them daily, and can't do stuff I consider fundamental, but then I realized what an elitist bastard I was being (and without even myself being elite, or even proficient; that's the kicker).
     So, if you include these things, I'll still find it annoying and swear many times at my monitor, but I won't send any angry letters or anything since you don't really have a choice in the matter. It's good that you have a game that appeals to wide enough audience that you need a straightforward installer.
     NSIS looks interesting, but a little too much work to understand right now. I think I'll stick with the self-extracting zip (which is at least a little bit of a concession, after all).

[Hard Rock]

Yes, i agree with dark dread, ive also got lots of questions, what do i do with this zip file, but personnly i hate having to install if i dont want too.

really the best option is have two links, have the installer link first and then for the people who dont like installers, ALSO offer a zip file, since personally, sometimes i refuse to play a game if it doesnt give me that option.

And as for installer programs theres lots, personally i use the clickteam (or is it clikteam?) installer, also free. check http://gamehippo.com ->utilities for some other installer too.
_________________
Hard Rock
http://starsdev.cjb.net