[Xegnma]

Howdy all. I feel the need to put an issue on the table for discussion. Now most of what I'm going to say has probably been said already but I feel it needs to be revisited.
The world of indie development is limited. Most of us here approach this as something as a hobby, spawned from the desire to create a game, in our cases an console-type RPG. We may lack the resources available to major industry players like Squaresoft or Interplay but we persevere; hacking away at code; pixeling into the wee hours of the night or trying desperately to come up with some unique concept and implementing it, all for the sake of completeing what we hope will be a great game.
The problem is when the game actually gets finished (if finished, and yes I fall into that category) they end up playing like games we've seen before. And I don't mean just in terms of plot elements. But the overall interface. When are we going to get truly imaginative and really push the envelope and come up with new ways for players to interact with the worlds we create? Throw out the standard FF or Phantasy Star menu systems and try to come up with something different, something you can call your own. It has been argued that the reason we emulate console-style Rpgs is because of the simplicity of their interfaces, but something is lost in the creative process when we copy them too closely...namely the creativity. What we need to do is follow the concept behind these interfaces -simplicity- and use that as the basis of our design. Most of what I've seen limits originality to story elements often underestimating the power of a truly unique interface. It is the medium thru which players experience a game. Amalgams, and hybrids of existing interfaces don't cut it either. While it's nice to draw on the familiar, after a while it bores the crap out of a player. Throw in something truly different and player will sit up and pay attention.
Now I've heard all sort of excuses like:
"There's nothing new under the sun"
"2d games are limited in scope"
etc.
But c'mon folks, if you are going to spend months/years trying to create something at least make it worthwhile for both yourselves and the player. We need to do something different. I know that making a game is no easy task but we ought to try to be innovative when it comes to interface design.

[Ninkazu]

We know this, but are you going to provide us with the answer?

This is supposed to be asked this way, to make it sound like we're dependent on other people's ideas.

"you have to figure out how to do things on your own."
"How do I do that?"

Anyway, ya.... my current project is working towards very unique systems. First of all (though this isn't unique, it's rare) Chrono-style encounters and on-map battles. However, the system is trying to get away from menu-based battles, while still maintaining functionality and staying turn-based. While I love real-time battles, it just doesn't work for RPG battle engines (at least not this game's).

Menus will be different, in my plans. We haven't really touched on them much in our design document, but we're still in early development. Menu formats..... out the window. Every menu will have a flow to fit its certain needs, to add variety and ease-of-use/flow of the menu.

//Word of advice: Don't share ideas in this thread. Come up with them on your own. I think I may have said too much already.

[Happy]

[ThousandKnives]

I agree with Happy's points. I should add that there is another reason here. Going back to the NES days at least, teams were small and had limited budgets. Hardware and development tools were limited. Therefore, interfaces conformed to what was the easiest to design for, offered the least opportunities for bugs, and took the least code to write.

That's the same position indie developers find themselves in, so thats why I believe you see many indie games that are like that, ESPECIALLY among the "completed" variety.

Indie developers only have so many hours in the day and games with massively innovative features usually end up very very short in other categories, such as "being completed".

My point it that its not that indie RPG developers arent creative, but the easiest RPG interfaces have all been tried before by previous developers desperate to get their product out as quickly and painlessly as possible. Innovation at this point is also going to require a great deal of designing, balancing, and coding. All of which starts adding up hundreds of man-hours of work that indie developers dont have.

[Bjorn]

I agree with Xegnma. And I agree that innovation takes time. We certainly try to innovate in our RPGs, though I'm not claiming it really works out. I thought we had the best snow effect and footsteps, for example, but I agree with many people that combat in BBRpg is rather boring. It is different from most other indie RPGs, but it can also be seen as a very poor and limited copy of Zelda-ish combat.

Anyway, the statement on itself is interesting to keep in mind, however trivial some people might think it is. I don't think there really is an answer to it though.

[Rainer Deyke]

I think innovation is a great thing. However, the interface is the last place I'd look for innovation. Much better to innovate in gameplay or plot.

[Xegnma]

I see happy's point on the nostalgia issue, as well as our limitations. And yes I am also forced to concede that most people approach this more to satisfy a personal goal than for the entertainment of others. But I don't believe that we have to sacrifice innovation. It may take more time and man-hours yes, but spending some time to conceive something different seems worth the effort. That may be my opinion but it is a worthy attitude to adopt. All i'm really saying is that we should at least try to be innovative. Try...