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ThousandKnives
Wandering Minstrel


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 147
Location: Boston

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:32 am    Post subject: [quote]

Quote:
Yeah that would be like almost as dumb as ripping off a big companys IP and expecting that none would react on it.

Intellectual Property Rights apply to the right to MAKE MONEY off of a copyrighted idea. IP does not give anyone the authority to bully people who are fiddling around with copyrighted ideas as a hobby.

IP doesn't even have much legal precedent against many gray-market activities such as value-added reproduction for cost-of-materials fees. (i.e. independently subtitled foreign films). As long as you are only charging to recoup your materials/shipping/handling costs, you aren't breaking the law enough that companies are ready to spend big lawyer bucks pursuing you. Same goes for the countless independent musicians who use samples taken from other songs in their works. Is it legal? It's pretty borderline. Are you a big enough fish and is it a strong enough case for big publishers to even THINK about spending the money frying you? No.

It's not a direct correlation, but it certainly sets enough precedent to say that someone making an amateur game, as a hobby, that uses much of the theme, story, and graphical data of a previously published game, but not even a shred of the engine and with no intent of ever making MONEY off of it, is NOT doing anything illegal.

Now, if your game starts keeping large numbers of people from spending large numbers of dollars buying the NEW products the publisher is releasing, I'm sure they could find some way of taking action, but probably only to stop you from distributing it. And I think we all know that situation isn't within the realm of possibility at any rate.
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Fooolking
Xmark's Caged Bitch


Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 79
Location: Toronto, Ontario. Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:24 am    Post subject: [quote]

I really don't see why this has to be a huge problem. I think getting a bit of coding experience from going through the process isnt such a bad thing.

Personally though, I don't see why you'd want to re-create a classic. I know sprite art can be hard to do, but you could always pull an X-mark, he makes his own Place holding sprites so he can get his coding done, so when an Artist comes along.....like Mandrake or Me (we are helping out with visual aspects for Arc legacy) he already has everything planned and ready to go.

I'd think if you started up your own original project, coded a scene with some of your own art work and hopefully you've developed an original story too (which is very important) the artists will probably join up anyways.

In any event, I wouldn't post your Chrono project on RPGDX. I don't think you will get high marks on it, seeing as it isn't an original title. Rather I'd do it on a website, then post a plug in the forum for folks to check out your engine and possibly join the flock.
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Sirocco
Mage


Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:42 am    Post subject: [quote]

Quote:

Now, if your game starts keeping large numbers of people from spending large numbers of dollars buying the NEW products the publisher is releasing, I'm sure they could find some way of taking action, but probably only to stop you from distributing it.


This is commonly referred to as dilution of product, and can be applied to either a specific product, or a trademark in general.

.
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole


Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:23 am    Post subject: [quote]

I never said legally there was a problem, or that he should remove it. I'm saying as a personal ethical ethos, I find it offensive. I also find offensive the fact that he claims that Blue Brothers RPG has the same level of copyright infringement as his game. I think BBRPG could easily be considered a fan game, since the blue brothers is not an RPG, and all the art was original. Rooter, otoh, has provided nothing original at all, other than reverse engineering the code. to me, as someone who works on creating unique original works, I find ethical abhorrent and offensive.
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Xmark

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Rooter
Copyright Infringer


Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 6:25 am    Post subject: [quote]

Good to see you completely ignored the fact you were wrong about the guest being me. You are completely and horribly owned.
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:31 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Apart from Mandrake, I think Valderman, DrunkenCoder and maybe even Sirocco were also taking that load of sarcasm serious. I thought it that post was quite funny because to me it pointed out the pointlessness of the debate quite well.

We all know how you feel now, Mandrake and Rooter. Could you now please stop telling the rest of the forum that? At least I hope I speak for the rest if I say we'd like you to either evade the subject a bit or continue this in private messages. Both of you are being unnecessarily rude to eachother.
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Sirocco
Mage


Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 2:21 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Quote:
Sirocco were also taking that load of sarcasm serious.


Despite it being mildly amusing, I still stand by my call for a ban on anonymous posting :) If you're going to issue a flame, at least have the decency to put a name to it.

.
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 5:17 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I wholly agree. But anonymous posting also has some convenience. Personally I find the subscribing process quite a barrier if I just want to put a comment somewhere, most of the time I just leave the place without saying anything.

In this case, I believe it was an accident and it was unfortunately the first post by Vinyl. When I took a look at the IP Vinyl had already wrote his next message so to me it was instantly clear who wrote the message, and was surprised that Mandrake had taken an other, unfortunate, conclusion.
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Rooter
Copyright Infringer


Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:18 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Yeah Bjorn, I'm done. Sorry about the mess ;P
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole


Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 9:36 pm    Post subject: [quote]

heh, ass kisser.

Quote:
Good to see you completely ignored the fact you were wrong about the guest being me. You are completely and horribly owned.


Nope. Did you ever think I was saying that just to piss you off? Cause I was, and it worked.
_________________
"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark

http://pauljessup.com
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:48 am    Post subject: [quote]

Could you, instead, kiss my ass a bit too?
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole


Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2004 11:20 pm    Post subject: [quote]

sorry Bjorn. Didn't mean to show a lack of respect for all you have done.
_________________
"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark

http://pauljessup.com
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biggerUniverse
Mage


Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 326
Location: A small, b/g planet in the unfashionable arm of the galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:45 am    Post subject: not ass kissing [quote]

As a mostly silent member here, I have seen time and time again the fair-handedness with which Bjørn has moderated the forums. I think everyone takes for granted his insight and objectivity, and ability to see both sides when the rest of us get out our flame guns. Props go out to you, Bjørn, and many thanks for being the stable foundation for RPGDX to grow on.
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valderman
Mage


Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:10 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I think someone is trying to get moderator status. ^_^
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter


Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:38 am    Post subject: [quote]

Thanks a lot for that comment, biggerUniverse. You're welcome. :-)
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