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Aptyp
Egg-Sucking Troll Humper


Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:42 am    Post subject: [quote]

Quote:
3) If you don't learn things the hard way, you'll become a lazy, crappy programmer that both André LaMothe and I hate.


One correction - laziness is a programmer's virtue. If you don't have it, you must develop it by any means necessary. I've done a lot of things "hard way" in the past and I still do it now (although only when it's faster than searching for a code I need on the internet), and now I can only look back and wonder just how stupid I was to try even when all books, tutorials, and other programmers were explicitly telling me not to.

I mean you can do whatever you want, I'm not your mom, but you're telling "fuck off" to people who just want to help you, and that wasn't very nice.
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Aptyp
Egg-Sucking Troll Humper


Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:47 am    Post subject: [quote]

Nekrophidius wrote:
Identify the uneducated lazy n00b in this thread, folks! :D


That would be me. My nick is Aptyp, and I'm the uneducated lazy n00b in this thread. Please note my postcount and join date, as well as my idiotic comment that time-proven parser generators are better than those custom-made by non-professionals. That was a clear indicator that I don't want to work long and hard to reinvent a bike, which is a sure sign of lack of education and experience.
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster


Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:25 pm    Post subject: [quote]

You're missing the point. His mind is -NOT CONDUCTIVE- to the use of those products. His mind, unlike yours, is extremely organized, not lazy at all. Like me, he never stops drawing new conclusions from what her learns. Every moment is something new, every moment has an element of purpose.

He's making something new, something wholly without precedent. For his purposes, the parser generators are old news, just not up to the task.

Besides, they aren't as advanced as you might think. Compiler theory is well known to every Comp-Sci major. (and abstract as all hell :P
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster


Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:44 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Let me put it this way. He doesn't care to "interact" with the system. When you don't care about "interaction" you care instead about "knowledge". He wants to build a vehicle for better knowledge transmission. To build something better than before, one must understand the trends that make something what it is. Only by starting at the bottom and working one's way up is it possible to determine the course of a system's evolution and to see the next step in the never-ending series of its developments. Traversing a system from its virgin thoughts may seem like a very cumbersome activity, but knowledge-based personalities have a gift for doing it. They are compelled to do it.

It's like the Windows way versus the Unix way, centralization versus comparmentalization, paradigm versus achitecture. The ancient psyche war between the precision-oriented logician and the vauge certitude of the experimentalist, that has always been and always will be. Am I becoming clear yet...?

It's his way and his way is just as good as yours. You can't change his mind. Just... leave it be?
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:11 pm    Post subject: [quote]

LordGalbalan wrote:
Besides, they aren't as advanced as you might think. Compiler theory is well known to every Comp-Sci major. (and abstract as all hell :P


There is nothing to suggest that Ninkazu is a CS major. For all we know, he's a thirteen year old sitting at a computer in his parent's house, hacking away. While I do not mean to suggest that is the case, the point is that we do not know exactly what Ninkazu knows about compiler design, other than what he has professed reading. (While I do not know how old the age projection is on this, if it is current, then my comparison is relatively accurate.) Not every member of this board has had the proper schooling in CS; indeed, many hobby codists would be appalled at the prospect of coding for a living. Which is to say, not everyone here has had a course in compilers, or languages, or anything like that.
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"...LeoDraco is a pompus git..." -- Mandrake
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster


Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: [quote]

...Whatever.
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:55 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Also, in looking over his code, conclusions can be made: beyond being horribly unmaintainable and unextendible from an idiomatic viewpoint, and lacking the finesse of an OO design, the non-recursiveness of the design is probably where many problems are/were creeping in.
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"...LeoDraco is a pompus git..." -- Mandrake
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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter


Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
Location: Location:

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Maybe the .cpp extensions were confusing you. I wrote this in C.

Also, I've taken two years of AP (college level) CS, and got a 5 of 5 on the AP test. I've been programming for 5 years, and yes, this is my first compiler. In fact, it's my first advanced parsing software I've ever written.

We all learn, man. Don't rip on me for not being in college yet. That time is fast approaching, and I plan on double majoring in CS and Japanese with a minor in Mandarin. If you really think that living with your parents when you're a minor with no job is so bad, then I don't want to know where you live.

My experiences:
Gaming-
1) Three or four incomplete RPG engines in QBasic
2) Six map editors (5 in QB, 2 that are mouse-controlled)
3) A fly-around vector game in Java (final CS project)

Web-
1) Three websites for professional organizations.
2) Many websites for my own company - Venosoft (4 styles I can think of right now. The latest database driven with PHP and MySQL)

I'm still in the position of Fling-master. I haven't finished a game yet, but with this scripting language, I intend on creating a very powerful 2D RPG engine. Unlike many years ago (and I think DarkDread can confirm this) I am no longer a "n00b" who proclaims his unfinished - unstarted - game will be the best ever. I made this thread seeking help, and fixed the problem on my own. No one helped me, you just said, "What? You're writing your own code? That's a thing of the past, brother."

So if you don't like that, you have much to learn about passion for something you love to do.
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Ninkazu wrote:
We all learn, man. Don't rip on me for not being in college yet. That time is fast approaching, and I plan on double majoring in CS and Japanese with a minor in Mandarin. If you really think that living with your parents when you're a minor with no job is so bad, then I don't want to know where you live.


Where, pray tell, did I "rip" on you not being in college? With the exception of the last post, no where in here have I expressed negative opinions. If such is taken to be the case, it is a bland misunderstanding.
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"...LeoDraco is a pompus git..." -- Mandrake
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Aptyp
Egg-Sucking Troll Humper


Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:25 pm    Post subject: [quote]

Quote:
Besides, they aren't as advanced as you might think.


I have yet to see a viable alternative. Maybe it's because most people were happy with existing implementations.

Never mind that there is a reason why standard libraries exist.

Quote:
For his purposes, the parser generators are old news, just not up to the task.


For all you know he never even heard about Lex/Yacc until it was mentioned in this thread. That is beside the fact that he's not writing a generator, he's writing a lexer/parser. And I seriously doubt that his language is so unlike anything ever seen before the grammar can't be written in Lex/Yacc.

Quote:
His mind, unlike yours, is extremely organized, not lazy at all.


So that's why he said he won't use software he can't understand? Because he's just too good to try and satisfy his curiousity?

Jesus, let Ninkazu speak for himself.
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster


Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:11 pm    Post subject: [quote]

I know that he had heard of it because Lex/Yacc is impossible to miss. Do a search for "compiler tools" on the 'Net and there it is. But eh this is a pointless arguement....
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omega_alpha
Fluffy Bunny of Doom


Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 16
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:40 am    Post subject: [quote]

I'd have to second the position on the code being unmaintainable. But as for the "do it yourself" mentality, let him do what he wants. Honestly many programmers do this when they're beginning and moving beyond simple programs. There's nothing wrong with it and let him do what he wants.
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BigManJones
Scholar


Joined: 22 Mar 2003
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 3:04 am    Post subject: [quote]

I agree. It was while writing/attempting to write a software renderer I discovered, 'Oh, thats why opengl is like that!'.
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