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janus
Mage
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 464
Location: Issaquah, WA
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 Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Silly.. |
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| Bjørn wrote: | | exploreRPG wrote: | | Comments like this are just silly... I've handed out FREE copies of my engine; over 15 in the past 4 months. And personally, I'm here *looking* for people who are versed in cross-platform development. So, by its very nature you are ignoring the potential to HELP a project become cross platform because you are too "stuck on yourself" to LOOK at it. |
I don't mean money, I mean free as in freedom, you should know where I stand by now. I don't care how many copies of your engine you give away for free, and I will never be interested in helping you out with your proprietary product, unless I would somehow be able to make a living from it maybe. I don't feel stuck because of this point of view, I feel... free.
Uh, and thanks Janus for the kind words. :-) |
Sorry if I'm being offensive. It really gets under my skin when I see 'professionals' trying to get kids to spend their money on game engines. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but this is really similar.
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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Silly.. |
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| biggerUniverse wrote: | | EDIT: Sorry, Hajo, I was thinking of your engine and wrote your name instead of exploreRPG. Please accept my apologies. |
No worries :)
I didn't even see the original message before the edit, it probably was posted while I was sleeping.
I think it's intersting to see commercial products discussed here, also discussing the pricing. OTOH there are open source solutions like WorldForge ( http://sourceforge.net/projects/worldforge/ ) and I'm not quite sure if there is a (big ?) market for commercial products.
Iso Studio aims at a more specialized environment, so it doesn't compete with WorldForge directly, and WorldForge is still in planning state although some code, artwork and demos exist.
H-World definitely has troubles to compete in terms of features but it is comparably small and free of cost, which might be interesting for some game developers.
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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Silly.. |
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| janus wrote: | P.S. Charging money for your product, or selling 5 copies doesn't make you a 'professional'. Having a degree from some university in interior design or computer science, or working at the department of natural resources, doesn't make you a 'professional game developer', either. You can definitely be an expert, skilled, or passionate game developer, but when you've actually worked on truly commercial products (you know, ones that people BUY and PLAY) you can call yourself a professional. You don't see people like Bjørn running around screaming about how they're professionals, even though Bjørn has written a number of great games.
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Thank you for the clarification. I obviously had trouble translating the term "professional".
What's the correct term if you have a degree and are working as a software developer, but do game/engine development as a hobby only?
After evaluating Tiled and seeing how well it is designed, I'd have no troubles to say Bjørn and biggerUniverse are professionals. Tiled defnitely is a high quality and very versatile tool.
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Silly.. |
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| Hajo wrote: | What's the correct term if you have a degree and are working as a software developer, but do game/engine development as a hobby only?
After evaluating Tiled and seeing how well it is designed, I'd have no troubles to say Bjørn and biggerUniverse are professionals. Tiled defnitely is a high quality and very versatile tool. |
Doing software development for a living means it's your profession, and thus would make you a professional software developer. The other meaning is that you're actually an expert or very skilled in the field. They would both be valid meanings of the word and often coexist, or at least that's what an employer would like.
I'm just professional in the meaning of skilled at the moment, and a student and hobbyist otherwise. Thanks Hajo for the compliment, but like Janus said, I'm not screaming about it. I think many of us can be called skilled individuals. :-)
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Don't get me wrong, we not a big company (so we really do not care if you buy the software or not) just a couple of guys that really love what we are doing. In that we just ask the comunity for feed back.
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That, I might say, is the only reason do something, do it because you love it. I think you won;t find too many buyers here, but I think that wasn't the point. It was to get feedback on the engine itself from some very skilled developers. Or semi skilled in some people's case.
I used to get all hot and bothered when people charged for the game library/system. I don't anymore. I don't see the point in pricing a tool (which is what Gia is, and which is what Iso-watchamacallit is), and I odn't see the point in closing the source of a tool, either, BUT-> I don't criticise those who make different choices. And there is a large shockwave 2d game market starting to blossum now. So they might have a viable market. Just not us. But again, I don't think they came here to get us to come shopping, just to give them feedback on the engine itself.
Also- for more clarification- the reason why Gia is free to do wtf you want with it is because I beleive that artistic objects (such as a video game) are different than tools (like what Gia itself is), and the artistic objects should not be open source or free as in free beer unless the artist believes it should be, becuase that person is using Gia to express themselves. It would be like me making a new paint bursh, but saying all who used my paint brush must distrubute a brush and a can of paint to everyone who looks at a painting made with my paint brush and let them paint on it. Artistic license and tool license are, IMHO, different ideas.
Kudos on at least having a free version people can use.
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