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| Do you use Python and PyGame? |
| Yes. It's my primary language and lib for games. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Yes. But I use it only for competetions |
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5% |
[ 1 ] |
| I used to, but not anymore. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Nope. |
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94% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 19 |
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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 Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:14 pm Post subject: poll....on game proggin |
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Ok, I'm doing some research for some stuff I can't really talk about. Right now I'm researching the popularity of Python and PyGame. Fun stuff.
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Rainer Deyke
Demon Hunter
Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Posts: 672
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| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:05 am Post subject: |
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Python and PyGame are important tools in my toolbox. I use them for prototypes, utilities, throwaway scripts, and small projects that don't need any more. However, my primary development environment remains C++/SDL/my own custom libraries.
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biggerUniverse
Mage
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 326
Location: A small, b/g planet in the unfashionable arm of the galaxy
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: |
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py what?
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Mandrake
elementry school minded asshole
Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 1341
Location: GNARR!
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. I kind of figured as much.
Reiner- do you know of any communities for Python game programming? I need to find out how many people use it, that sort of thing. The website doesn't give me much insight. When I was programming in PyGame before I pretty much avoided the community aspect of it (cause I was l33t).
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janus
Mage
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 464
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Python is great, but pygame's api is way too weak for my tastes. If I was really nuts enough to write a whole game in python, i'd probably use pyopengl. (perhaps that works with pygame? that would be nice, i guess)
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tsb
I wanna be a ballerina!
Joined: 09 Oct 2004
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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I use Python extensively, but never PyGame.
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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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I can't say I've ever thought of using anything but C++ for a serious project. For some reason, it just doesn't feel right to use another language. ;)
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Endless Saga
An OpenGL RPG in the making. Now with new hosting!
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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I've been using C++ extensively so far, but I'm considering Java for my next project ... if there will ever be a next project.
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DrunkenCoder
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Hajo wrote: | | I've been using C++ extensively so far, but I'm considering Java for my next project ... if there will ever be a next project. |
Just being curious but why switch? and how did opensourcing crpg go did you recive any help?
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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| DrunkenCoder wrote: | | Hajo wrote: | | I've been using C++ extensively so far, but I'm considering Java for my next project ... if there will ever be a next project. |
Just being curious but why switch? |
Query seconded. It's not as though Java is a bad language (far from it!) but apart from portability and garbage collection, it doesn't have much going for it over C++ when it comes to game developement. At least that's how I see it. :)
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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| DrunkenCoder wrote: | | Hajo wrote: | | I've been using C++ extensively so far, but I'm considering Java for my next project ... if there will ever be a next project. |
Just being curious but why switch? and how did opensourcing crpg go did you recive any help? |
I tend to make less mistakes if coding Java. The language seems to be more foolproof than C++
This measn spending less time on debuging, and more time to work on new features. Also Java comes with lots of helpful libraries, most interesting for me currently is the good networking support. I like the collectiosn framework, while I never really liked the STL. Graphics support in Java is 'good enough' so I don't need to look for additional libs there, too.
Java is available for all major platforms, and there is no need to compile binaries for each platform. The same bytecode basically runs on any platform. I know, "write once run everywhere" isn't true, but Java is closer to that than C++ is.
I dislike Java for the huge runtime it needs. And the slower execution speed. And the higehr memory requirements. That's been my main concerns in the past, but nowadays many people have broadband internet, and can download the runtime fairly conventiently. Computes became faster and have more memory, so the slower speed and bigger footprint are not so big problems anymore.
There are some good and free IDEs for Java, like Eclipse and NetBeans. I haven't found something of equal quality for C++ yet (= may exists, I didn't search too much, and I didn't intent to buy something, so I only looked at freeware and open source).
Maybe there is also a slight influence from my job, I'm a professional Java developer since 1998. Maybe I just like the language because I know it well and use it much. But seriously, I don't want to say "Java is better than C++" or something like that. It's just me, and maybe the needs of my envisioned next project that seem to go better with Java than C++
Making H-World opensource was appreciated by many people who formerly critisized the closedsourceness. Yet, only one person showed moderate interest to continue, and he has very little time, because he runs a small company. But he's been with the project for more than a year, and wrote three (unfinished) modules for it, so I have a little hope some day he'll continue.
I know, making a project open source and then quitting developement usually means the death of the project, because there is noone left who really wants to push it further. So I don't complain. I had a serious down end of last year early this year and I just could not go on in any way. I thought opening the code was just fair, before it ends in the dustbin and is lost forever.
I think I'll try to recycle some code from H-World for my next project. I have some experience in transcoding C and C++ code to Java, it's seems more beneficial than writing these things again. The C++ code is tested and works, so if I don't make mistakes in transcoding I get Java code that also works. I made fairly good experiences with this in the past, and H-Worlds code is structurally well suited for Java.
But currently I'm enjoying my break from all programming and painting. I just have some crazy ideas in my head again :) I peek into this forum once or twice a week to see what you guys are creating, though :)
PS: Thanks for the question! It's been a very boring day so far, and I'm happy that I can write this :)
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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| RuneLancer wrote: |
It's not as though Java is a bad language (far from it!) but apart from portability and garbage collection, it doesn't have much going for it over C++ when it comes to game developement. At least that's how I see it. :) |
Yes, it think very much the same. You can see that in the fact that I'm working as Java developer, yet my own projects are two large (?) C++ projects and s few smaller Java thingies. I'm very much undecided which language is better and decide from case to case newly.
If you like C++ and feel comfortable with it, stay with it.
I personally like garbage collection very much. Mistakes in memory handling are my no. 1 problem with C++
And I find them hard to debug and sometimes also hard to fix. Very time consuming for me, and frustrating.
But I know other people don't have such problems, so I think it's a personal thing or matter of coding style.
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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Comfortability with a language is as important as it gets. ;)
| Hajo wrote: |
I personally like garbage collection very much. Mistakes in memory handling are my no. 1 problem with C++ |
You can easily get around that by using singleton resource managers. Have the singleton's deconstructor go through every non-null resource and free it up. Endless Saga uses this to manage its textures (along with a reference count to avoid loading the same texture twice; works a lot like COM really) and to date, I've never had any leaks or memory-related errors. ;)
Works like a charm.
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An OpenGL RPG in the making. Now with new hosting!
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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Be happy that you found a solution :)
I still like Javas GC because I don't even have to think about how to solve the problem. In C++ I must take care.
Hehe, it's a boring day for me, maybe we should start a little flamewar? I'm sure I can find a lot of inflammable points in Java vs C++ ;)
A colleage and me once presented a Java vs C++ session on a company internal training. It's been a few yers, but I'm sure I can dig out some of the stuff and I think I remember some of the question of the audience as well :)
But seriously I know that other people have no problems with memory management. Although I suspect they have about the same as myself, just don't know how much less they could have with another language that supports GC ;)
I once found this: "C programmers know memory management is too important to leave it at the hand of the language; LISP programmers know memory management is too important to leave it at the hand of the individual programmer"
I'm obviously a member of the second fraction while you are of the first. This quite is old, as are the languages. Until today it seems noone could say a final word on who's right and who's wrong.
I'd like to offer a ceize fire treaty, without telling the other side that their solution or coding skills are worse, ok?
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LeoDraco
Demon Hunter
Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Location: Riverside, South Cali
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| RuneLancer wrote: | You can easily get around that by using singleton resource managers. Have the singleton's deconstructor go through every non-null resource and free it up. Endless Saga uses this to manage its textures (along with a reference count to avoid loading the same texture twice; works a lot like COM really) and to date, I've never had any leaks or memory-related errors. ;)
Works like a charm. |
You don't even have to go that far, in most cases; Smart pointers, as have been championed on the boards before, are fantastic ways of avoiding handling raw pointers, while still allowing for the convenience of pointers. Garbage collection is handled for you, usually by doing some internal maintenance like reference counting or linking. The chapter linked to at the end of that article by Andrei Alexandrescu is rather good, if not a bit excessive for most usage.
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