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janus
Mage
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 464
Location: Issaquah, WA
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 Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| DeveloperX wrote: | janus:
Go find something better to do than sit on a forum all day and post rude remarks about thinks and people you know NOTHING about.
Tip: challenge yourself to a staring contest by looking in a mirror. |
Oh, this is a forum? My mistake, I thought I was reading press releases on your website.
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Bjorn
Demon Hunter
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 1425
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, don't feel like reading 5 pages of topic to determine whether it should be blocked or not. All I will say is to please keep it civil people, it's great to have this active discussion going on but we need to strive towards the least amount of annoyance for everybody.
Some feedback to LG: I tried your thingy in Safari on Tiger and I couldn't get a grip on anything, it seemed highly unfunctional. Also, when it is not clear what is supposed to happen (it is not to me), that makes it even harder to actually figure out how to make it happen.
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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DeveloperX wrote: | well, yeah theres always the GNU opensource set of tools, but its not
geared for newcomers. |
This may be a bit off-topic, but even though I'm not a fan of open source programs, I can't even begin to agree with that. Isn't this a bit of a "Well, yeah... you DO have a point, but I'm going to pretend you don't and ignore it." statement? :/
In any event, wether open source or not, the point is that there's a lot of freeware stuff out there that works great. Sometimes even better than the commercial stuff. Some of which is even geared at newbie developpers trying to get into the field.
Ever heard of Tile Studio, for instance? Freeware (and now recently made opensource) tile/map editor with a powerful language which can output the code required to load either in any language. Dunno about you, but that sounds like a useful tool to learn how to make tile-based games (though personally I only use it as a sprite editor.)
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bjørn wrote: | Sorry, don't feel like reading 5 pages of topic to determine whether it should be blocked or not. All I will say is to please keep it civil people, it's great to have this active discussion going on but we need to strive towards the least amount of annoyance for everybody.
Some feedback to LG: I tried your thingy in Safari on Tiger and I couldn't get a grip on anything, it seemed highly unfunctional. Also, when it is not clear what is supposed to happen (it is not to me), that makes it even harder to actually figure out how to make it happen. |
It doesn't? That's strange. I'll have to download Safari and find out what the problem is. Works great in IE and Firefox, and Opera. Were there errors? I should note that the undo function is not yet complete, nor is the pen select box on top....
To everyone else, ...what comes across when I talk with someone on the phone, and when I post text to a message board, is very different, because when people talk one-on-one to me, a little lightbulb is constantly going off in their heads with new ideas and perspectives over what I'm talking about. That doesn't seem to happen through text, perhaps because you guys (DirectX excluded) don't really know me. I also don't write this text outright. I sometimes change, even delete sentences before I post. Doing something like that always derails the logical process a bit in the reader's mind.
Anyway, what DevX said.
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janus
Mage
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 464
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LordGalbalan wrote: | | To everyone else, ...what comes across when I talk with someone on the phone, and when I post text to a message board, is very different, because when people talk one-on-one to me, a little lightbulb is constantly going off in their heads with new ideas and perspectives over what I'm talking about. That doesn't seem to happen through text, perhaps because you guys (DirectX excluded) don't really know me. I also don't write this text outright. I sometimes change, even delete sentences before I post. Doing something like that always derails the logical process a bit in the reader's mind. |
If you're aware that your posts are incoherent and don't properly express what you want to express, then why are you posting them? Why not wait until you've had enough time to edit them into something good?
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DeveloperX
202192397
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 1626
Location: Decatur, IL, USA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| LordGalbalan wrote: | | That doesn't seem to happen through text, perhaps because you guys (DirectX excluded) don't really know me. |
uh......you mean DeveloperX ;)
I'm not Die Wreckt Exe!
hehe.
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Ren
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 130
Location: turn around...
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| RuneLancer wrote: | | Ever heard of Tile Studio, for instance? Freeware (and now recently made opensource) tile/map editor with a powerful language which can output the code required to load either in any language. Dunno about you, but that sounds like a useful tool to learn how to make tile-based games (though personally I only use it as a sprite editor.) |
Off topic, but thanks for that, i'm using it right now and it seems like a really neat program.
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Nevermind about Safari, it's a Mac program. I'm not in a very good position to test one of those.
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Nephilim
Mage
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| LordGalbalan wrote: | | Nevermind about Safari, it's a Mac program. I'm not in a very good position to test one of those. |
Safari's pretty good at conforming to standards, so if your code is clean, it should work. Of course, it may be a bug in Safari, but you'll probably want to look at your own code first, especially since you seem to be really struggling with both Javascript and standards-compliant web design.
In particular, I'd take a look at how you're dealing with the DOM, since that frequently seems to be the culprit when you encounter cross-browser glitches, at least in my experience. Javascript can deal with some sloppiness in some contexts, but getting sloppy with how you access the DOM gets you into trouble real fast.
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it works great in Firefox. No warnings, even. So, I'm kinda confused that it doesn't work in Safari...? It probably does, I'm guessing, but I guess the interface wasn't intuitive enough for Bjorn to get a feel for out right. Nothing I can do about that though. :( I didn't design this app for PCs alone, nor even large-screened devices. :)
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Nephilim
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Posts: 414
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| Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| LordGalbalan wrote: | | I guess the interface wasn't intuitive enough for Bjørn to get a feel for out right. Nothing I can do about that though. |
Well, leaving aside the issue about whether or not you can do anything about interface design, it's not just the interface. It's actually broken. You posted a step-by-step at one point (still without explaining what it's supposed to be doing), and I tried following it, and it did not do what you claimed it would as I followed along. Something in it doesn't work properly.
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DeveloperX
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Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 1626
Location: Decatur, IL, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:41 am Post subject: |
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| Nephilim wrote: | | It's actually broken. You posted a step-by-step at one point (still without explaining what it's supposed to be doing), and I tried following it, and it did not do what you claimed it would as I followed along. Something in it doesn't work properly. |
I used Mozilla 1.5 and it worked perfectly.
Its confusing at first, because of the interface complexity & the fact that it is undocumented at this point.
I'll try to do something about that soon.
I just can't work on it right now.
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I should mention that I added an extra function. Clicking one of the bottom icons after highlighting it now appends a copy of the icon to the end of the top palette if in Preview mode. In Module mode, the top icon is still overwritten.
I think it's an excellent usability improvement.
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janus
Mage
Joined: 29 Jun 2002
Posts: 464
Location: Issaquah, WA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LordGalbalan wrote: | | I think it's an excellent usability improvement. |
I'm not sure you can improve something that doesn't exist.
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Nephilim
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Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 414
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| Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| DeveloperX wrote: | | I used Mozilla 1.5 and it worked perfectly. |
Well, that's a good sign. I suppose it could also be that LG's hard-to-follow instructions lost me along the way.
| Quote: | | Its confusing at first, because of the interface complexity & the fact that it is undocumented at this point. |
Well, you shouldn't need documentation to use a web app like this. Look at a web app like BaseCamp, which is undoubtedly WAY more complicated than Iconsole. Basecamp is not only easy to use, but you would know exactly what it does even if you saw a screenshot out of context. The demonstrated incarnation of Iconsole was at the opposite end of the spectrum, obscure to the point of futility, and was made worse by LG's determination not to explain the app.
I think a usability pass on this app would do wonders for it. I don't think it would address some of the more fundamental issues discussed in this thread, but at least people wouldn't be confused about what they're looking at.
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