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Ren
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 130
Location: turn around...
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 Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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I was about to do just that, and then document the average power ratio of each hit, but then I didn't, because then there'd be no hope for me.
| Tenshi wrote: | | - I mean, come on, now they're just getting lame with these designs. The Weapon? Kick ass. I've not seen a Chakram that large before. It's unique. The breasts? With the breast physics of today's games? One small jump and they'll fall out of her shirt. |
You know, the weapon seems the most absurd part of the character to me. It's unfeasably large, and she clearly lacks the upper body strength to carry it, especially with one hand. If they didn't want to beef up her character they could have made the inner ring out of wood, and then lined the outside with sharp steel or something.
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js71
Wandering DJ
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the point is to be realistic. :p
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Ren
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 130
Location: turn around...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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So what is the point? To make an engaging, interesting game, right? If no thought goes into character design and weapon choice you might as well not bother. I mean, small girls with big weapons is all well and good in it's place, but it's not usually the style of the Soul Caliber series. Think about the weapons Sophia, Taki and Seung Mina carry, they're light and quick and well thought out. My point is that they shouldn't just change the rules of the series because of the market hype or whatever, otherwise the game will eventually become boring and steriotypical.
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Josiah Tobin wrote: | | Quote: | | - And of course you don't have any problems with that. Everyone loves a good set of magical anti-gravity breasts. I'm sure just about every woman would kill for a set of those. No bra needed. |
Yeah, because anti-gravity boobs are certainly a real-life problem. Jesus christ, loosen the FUCK up! Stop whining about something that's confined to a medium such as video games where the point is far from telling people what the next fad in fasion is!
Yes, I agree the character design is unrealistic and somewhat ridiculous. Do I care? No, because it's a goddamn VIDEO GAME, and it's sure as hell NOT trying to set ideals or say "THIS is what women should be like"-- just STOP, jeez... it's NOT hurting anyone, you're just working yourself up over it. |
- Come on over to a WomenGamer site and try that.
- And last I checked most engines today try to articulate "breast physics" and get that "bounce" just right, because that's clearly such an important part of the game. Don't be mad just because I'm not a lame fuck wad like you who sees "titties" and thinks that all of a sudden that that excuses a game and makes it grade-A playable and acceptable. "A'yuck, boobies, I wanna play! OMG This game is so COOL, best game EVAR!"
- Sorry, but character development and a little COMMON SENSE matter to me. It ticks off something in my head when blaringly stupid shit like what I just posted is made in an attempt to garner the lesser male attention. But maybe that's 'cause I like to target both the male AND female audience, instead of just flashing women around like meat on a stick to sell games to a bunch of misogynist blowhards.
- But if you wanna start shit with me I'm certainly not out of practice asshole.
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js71
Wandering DJ
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | - Come on over to a WomenGamer site and try that. |
No, thanks. :)
| Quote: | | - And last I checked most engines today try to articulate "breast physics" and get that "bounce" just right, because that's clearly such an important part of the game. Don't be mad just because I'm not a lame fuck wad like you who sees "titties" and thinks that all of a sudden that that excuses a game and makes it grade-A playable and acceptable. "A'yuck, boobies, I wanna play! OMG This game is so COOL, best game EVAR!" |
"Like me"? Hahaha... Heh, thanks for the stereotype there. It's funny how you go on and on and on about feminism, eliminating stereotypes etc. and then you go and say something like that, which uses such a broad stereotype based on your pissed-off interpretation of my post... :p
For the record, I don't give a shit about "OMG TITTIES IN GAMES" -- if anything, I DO think it's kinda ridiculous, but I just don't care enough to riot against it. It doesn't bug me, but I couldn't care less about the size of character's breasts in games.
Eh, go ahead, try and prove me wrong and say the appearance of female characters is the only reason I play video games, I don't think there's much to be done in the way of reasoning by this point. All I can say is that I know myself well enough to not blindly lash out at your generalizations.
Look, it's as simple as this: Your stance just annoys me. I'm not against it, but it seems pretty pointless considering the medium. Apparently what you think is my stance ("lame fuck wad who sees "titties" and thinks that all of a sudden that that excuses a game and makes it grade-A playable and acceptable") pisses you off as well. Maybe I'm not making my views clear enough, I don't know. But it's pretty obvious you're misinterpreting me. I think I've made my points by now though... Point out anything I've missed.
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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- I really don't care if my stance annoys you. I absolutely do not care. I responded deliberately in spite to prove a point. If you don't want to argue a point civily I won't either. There was no need to use "Fuck" in your post. I have been civil up until this point and I expected the same in return. We can do it civily, or we can do it like a bunch of brash retards. Take your pick.
- If you don't care about how games are developed, that's your problem. To quote Knights of the Old Republic 2, "Apathy is death." Though not to that literal extreme, if you don't care, then nothing changes. If you don't speak up, then nothing gets done. If people continue to allow themselves to be force-fed games like this and told "This is what you like, yeah, so keep buying and we'll keep on spittingt hem out" then they get what they put the effort into -- nothing.
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Ren
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 130
Location: turn around...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Tenshi wrote: | | - But if you wanna start shit with me I'm certainly not out of practice asshole. |
Yes, well, let's not go down that road shall we? It wouldn't be a great thing if this topic were locked.
Anyhow, I was playing FFX a couple nights back becuase I just bought it, and noticed that the Chocobo Knights all have a hole in their armour so they can have their panties and suspenders showing, while the male members wear full plate armour. Now i'm not prudish, but I remembered this topic and the cogs started spinning. The thing about FFX is that the world isn't anywhere near believable, and consequently it takes a very long time to start being drawn into the game. Frankly, in many of the locations the archetecture of the buildings doesn't fit with any of the realities of the world, and the attire of the female half of the cast has a tendancy to be totally unappropriate to the situation they're in. Like it or not, if a female member of the cast is wearing next to nothing she becomes instantly unbelievable unless her character happens to have a personality type that fits. Now you can argue about how it's a game and is not supposed to be realistic if you like, but the bottom line is that if it looks wrong and i'm not drawn in someone hasn't done their job properly.
If I were to draw a more striking parallel, what if Yorda (the female lead from ICO) was wearing nothing except panties and a bra? I don't even want to think about it, because it totally jars with the design of the characters and storyline, and frankly it would have ruined the game. Conversely, the fact that the characters are sexy and you can play dress-up was an important part of DOA2, and because the game rocked and had no pressing storyline requirements it seemed to fit well.
EDIT: looks like I missed the boat, ha.
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Last edited by Ren on Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Josiah Tobin wrote: | | For the record, I don't care about "OMG TITTIES IN GAMES" -- if anything, I DO think it's kinda ridiculous, but I just don't care enough to riot against it. It doesn't bug me, but I couldn't care less about the size of character's breasts in games. |
Eh, seems to me there's only one person actually obsessing over it in this thread.
They're two fleshy orbs with pink bumps. Let's make a fuss! :)
No, wait, better idea: let's just all grow up a little and move on. Then we can debate more pressing issues, like the lack of hamsters in recent games (they have rights too.)
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js71
Wandering DJ
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | - I really don't care if my stance annoys you. I absolutely do not care. |
I think that's a mutual feeling.
| Quote: | | If you don't want to argue a point civily I won't either. There was no need to use "Fuck" in your post. I have been civil up until this point and I expected the same in return. We can do it civily, or we can do it like a bunch of brash retards. Take your pick. |
First of all: so-called 'swears' are just words to me. They're just sounds, or in this case bunches of letters that don't really mean shit to me. (oh no, there I go again!) My use of them shouldn't signify the attitude of a 'brash retard', nor should it imply that I'm overly vulgar by nature. Like I said, they're just words. Your interpretation is your own, of course.
| Quote: | | - If you don't care about how games are developed, that's your problem |
I never implied that. I am quite interested in the development of games and I do care if there's something that's 'wrong' by my standards. Like I said, I just don't care enough to crusade against it. (maybe too harsh a word)
My inaction shouldn't imply apathy, though that is the impression lots of people have had (this applies to various subjects)-- I just prefer to focus on things I enjoy doing, things that get me where I need to be, etc-- I've found that loudly protesting against something just drags me in and pisses me off more and more as it goes along, so I don't.
Look, I'll admit I said some things in my posts I probably shouldn't have if I wanted to get somewhere, and yes I have tendancy to lash out. I don't want this paragraph to read like a "I'm wrong so I'd better suck up now" post, either. I don't have anything against you, like I said I'm just annoyed by some of your views. When arguing (or 'discussing') with someone, I try to make a point of not holding a grudge. And like most people I can usually tell when an argument isn't going to go anywhere fast.
Well, most of this probably will read like a "sorry sorry I'm wrong" post as stated above, but that's not the intention-- I just can't think of any other way to word it.
I would appreciate it if we could end this now and agree to not cross our views on the subject in the future.
EDIT: Seems I missed the last couple of posts while writing this.
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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- Well I have a tendency to be direct, and I have no shame in this:
"I'm sorry. I was too eager to jump on that. This kind of stuff makes me very bitter and I don't express it as much as I'd like."
- I would prefer the debate, but I understand what you are saying.
- And yes, I am in a crusade against the issue. There're very few things I feel as strongly about. I've aspired to make video games since I was little, and I've watched them turn into virtual peep shows where gameplay takes a back-seat to breast jiggle algorithms and panty rendering, and an increasingly dominant feminist outlook has not helped. I am a nitpicky person. I am capable of abstracting only when the environment I am presented with is COMPLETELY abstract. But when, for example, the law of physics applies to everything but a woman's breasts, I arch a brow and it's like "well , why is this?" and the only answer I get is "well, 'cause sex sells." When a guy needs a full set of plate mail and 10 layers of muscle to accomplish the same task as a bust woman in a bikini and stilettos I'm like "huh?" But yeah... without listing the 10 bajillion examples I can rat off in a heart-beat... detail, detail, answers, bottom line.
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js71
Wandering DJ
Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 815
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I'm glad we could resolve it. I apologize as well.
| Quote: | | - I would prefer the debate, but I understand what you are saying. |
I might, too, if I had much experience in the matter. As it stands, I don't. As you said:
| Quote: | | - And yes, I am in a crusade against the issue. There're very few things I feel as strongly about. I've aspired to make video games since I was little, and I've watched them turn into virtual peep shows where gameplay takes a back-seat to breast jiggle algorithms and panty rendering, and an increasingly dominant feminist outlook has not helped. |
Maybe it's because I don't pay as much attention to 'new' games (for the longest time I just played old SNES and Genesis games... still mostly do, come to think of it), and the fact that I haven't been interested in game development for as long as a lot of people here, but I can't say I've been witness to that progression (decline would be more fitting, I suppose) of games first hand. That's probably why I don't feel as strongly about the issue. :p
| Quote: | | But when, for example, the law of physics applies to everything but a woman's breasts, I arch a brow and it's like "well , why is this?" and the only answer I get is "well, 'cause sex sells." When a guy needs a full set of plate mail and 10 layers of muscle to accomplish the same task as a bust woman in a bikini and stilettos I'm like "huh?" |
That I can agree with, though it's usually something I joke about more than anything. Sure, I'd rather the characters were more realistically designed/clad, but likely for the reasons stated above it doesn't piss me off that much.
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biggerUniverse
Mage
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 326
Location: A small, b/g planet in the unfashionable arm of the galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:05 am Post subject: |
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I actually have to post about this, as I recently saw examples of this discussion that were appallingly obvious. My entry comes from France, like the coneheads.
Although the client is entirely Flash (very cool), the mechanics are horrendous (it's still beta). That asside, the differences between the male and female members of the classes is(save two, I think) just blatant. I found that lame and saddening, esp. for a game with obvious potential (if you don't mind constantly jumping between 50x50 tile sub-maps to get anywhere)
[warning: all-flash page with MMN]
http://community.dofus.com/game/encyclo-classes.php
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Sirocco
Mage
Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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That asside, the differences between the male and female members of the classes is(save two, I think) just blatant. I found that lame and saddening, esp. for a game with obvious potential (if you don't mind constantly jumping between 50x50 tile sub-maps to get anywhere) |
Those character designs, with several small exceptions, are fecal matter.
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BadMrBox
Bringer of Apocalypse
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 1022
Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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gamegirls are all boobs, gameboys are all muscle but I dont hear any male organisation bitch about that subject.
Are men less sensitive than women? I'm sure am because I dont give a damn either way.
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| BadMrBox wrote: | gamegirls are all boobs, gameboys are all muscle but I dont hear any male organisation bitch about that subject.
Are men less sensitive than women? I'm sure am because I dont give a damn either way. |
- Actually, I often target this problem, AND racial profiling because both annoy me. Why does a guy have to be 10 tons of muscle when a woman with not an ounce of muscle on her can perform the same job? There are obvious exceptions to this, such as Cloud Strife and a few others I can think of, but it's really just annoying.
---
- And those designs are crap. But that's what I'm talking about. I like the Tribal one because at least if the woman's going to be scantily clad, the male version is as well.
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