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Mark_Y
Tenshi's Bitch (Peach says "Suck it!")
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 62
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 Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:47 am Post subject: |
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FYI -- Unless Tenshi also posted the SC pics, I think you're mistaking my post for his.
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark_Y wrote: | | FYI -- Unless Tenshi also posted the SC pics, I think you're mistaking my post for his. |
- No, Mark_Y I posted this one:
http://temp.tanime.net/sc3_tira_omgwtf.jpg
- Which shows Tira in the same outfit as the one you posted. Generally when game companies show a CG of a character, it's their default outfit. Whether or not it can be changed it is the one that they use to advertise with.
| LeoDraco wrote: | | posting images of what you have declared are "grotesque" bodybuilders --- and have objected to those images on a purely superficial basis, without any other (relevant) reasoning applied, save the austere claim that it is not equal or sensible. |
- I posted pictures of male and female bodybuilders in comparison to show that the 'massive biceps' isn't as outlandish as the accompanied 'breast implants' that all of the female designs receive -- which brings me to one of my favorite examples:
http://media.ps2.gamespy.com/media/736/736896/img_2924978.html
Taki.
- Mark_Y: In reference to the female bodybuilder pictures I don't know if this example really suits your case as much as it does mine. For every game she has been in she has always been this incredibly "muscular" [Japanese] woman who through some grace of God has managed to grow a set of DDD's. Most bodybuilders don't even achieve that with implants. And as for "breast physics" in Soul Calibur, regardless of the minute bounce found on Seung Mina or the other more "sensible" designs, Taki's are always bouncing all over the place. While it's true that would occur because of her outfit (spandex tights) the fact that she even has them is a 'miracle.'
- Granted there's the testocerone-capped monstrocity Asteroth. However, last I checked he isn't a human being and therefore not subject to human rules. Nightmare might be arguable, however Nightmare's model is based on a more "Average" muscular template called Seigfried and most of that is armor. What might work would be to consider the face of this one ( http://media.ps2.gamespy.com/media/736/736896/img_2827636.html ), however, though, all of the women have a pretty face, and yet not all of the men do.
- Back to Tekken, though. My problem wouldn't be with the bodies in this shot ( http://media.ps2.gamespy.com/media/681/681191/img_2608411.html ) male nor female. It's with the fact that someone in that picture is fighting in platform heels. Same with the third shot. In the first shot her far foot is at an odd angle, which is most likely because the motion capture was done properly (flat-footed) and then they just simply angled the foot to add heels for that outfit. Again, those're [third shot] some amazing heels that must be made out of solid steel since they don't break. You notice that the footwear on men is never that obsurd, though it is difficult to think of a male shoe that would be difficult-to-impossible to fight in, since it's really only women who damage their bodies with their footwear (lengthening the calf muscle to the point that walking becomes impossible; the higher the heel the more the spine is dispositioned causing abnormalities in the curviture; unnecessary stress on the heel of the foot due to an always-angled sole; shock damage to the spine due to the fact that vertical impact cannot be properly absorbed because there is no "heel-to-toe flexibility" since the foot is always bent, etc.). But hey, it makes them look sexy right. Like Chinese foot binding or African neck stretching, who cares what's done to their bodies as long as for a moment they look appealing. :|
| Mark_Y wrote: | | The number of drunken men who drop their pants at parties is much, much less than the number of men who flash their breasts. |
- THat may be, but it's also socially unacceptable to flash that, because men are phobic of one another's genitals. Take movies, for instance. There was a movie recently made in which Collin Farrel's penis was shown in a scene. The women who previewed the movie liked it, but the men didn't. As a result, the scene was removed from the final film -- Colin was of course upset. Something like that would never occur if the situation were reversed.
| Mark_Y wrote: | | Because women's nipples are an object of sexual attraction in a way that men's aren't? Whether your think that's arbitrary or not (breasts aren't sexualized in all cultures), it's what's true everywhere today except for extremely primitive (the polite word is escaping me) tribal societies. |
- According to some women the biceps of a male are very attractive. Of course they have preferences about the amount and shape just like men have preferences about the amount and shape of the breasts of women.
- I don't see "bitch" as an insult. In fact I take it as a compliment. A "bitch" is a very opinionated and direct woman (social definition, not real definition). This word is remnant from patriarchial societies finding women with a mind of their own to be undesirable. It's like a previous argument I had where I listed Captain Janeway from Star Trek Voyager as a good female character. Responses I received to that were, "She's a bitch." Why's that bad?
| LeoDraco wrote: | | You ask for context; alright: your character shows both leg and arm, unprotected from anything. Assuming that your characters' will be battling more than gigantic bees, your characters' will be coming into contact with foes wielding metal weaponry. While leather, mail, or plate armor might not perfectly protect the arms or legs from such weapons, the bearer stands much better chance of not being amputated with such armor worn. |
- Finally! And this is true. However since I have stated that both the male and female versions of the character are not protected, the character isn't sexualized, the character is just completely unprotected. Thus it would be completely wrong of me to present the character as some sort of viable tank. The same with swamps, etc. This character's defense is his/her offense, and functions similar to  this.
| LeoDraco wrote: | | You are always clamoring for civility; |
- I spoke of civility in the other thread, as in I was 'civil' until what I took as an aggressive statement was returned in kind. In this thread, I said nothing of civility. I said
| Tenshi wrote: | | but I will only do it if my 'opponent' is serious. |
which I defined as
| Tenshi wrote: | | serious (adj.) - requiring much thought or work; earnest, devoted |
- Which means that
| LeoDraco wrote: | | I can see arm-flesh! The clothes are not practical! |
this is not "serious," it is one-liner trolling, whereas your last post is.
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- Jaeda
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Mark_Y
Tenshi's Bitch (Peach says "Suck it!")
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Isn't her name Taki, not Tira? Or is it someone new in SC3? Taki in SC2 had the same ludicrous mammaries.
Regarding footwear, doesn't Heihachi or someone fight in ridiculous wooden shoes? (Granted, not as bad as heels, but still. . . .)
| Quote: | | According to some women the biceps of a male are very attractive. Of course they have preferences about the amount and shape just like men have preferences about the amount and shape of the breasts of women. |
But you cannot argue that biceps are even remotely comparable (err, well, you have argued that, but it's wrong). There is no social taboo against showing biceps.
The whole point of exhibitionism (which technically refers to either just acting out to get attention or flashing one's genitals) is that you flaunt sexuality in a taboo fashion either for gratification or to attract attention. Argue however much you want, but women do this more than men. It's not because women are evil or biologically inclined to (maybe they are, though -- female animals initiate sexual encounters by flaunting their genitalia). It's a product of culture. But your argument was that it was unrealistic that women in video games are more exhibitionist than men, and that's just silly. It's REALISTIC. It's just a depressing reality.
Compare the way women's tennis is marketed to the way men's tennis is marketed. Compare the way women's soccer is marketed to men's soccer. Compare the way women dress at parties to the way men dress at parties. Compare the way women's dating guides tell them to attract men to the way men's dating guides tell them to attract women.
As a last point -- if Taki's body really did work the way it works in SC, it probably would be a really big asset (hehe) to expose it as much as possible. I mean, I think even the stodgiest of foes would be at least somewhat transifxed by what they saw, if only from a freakshow perspective.[/i]
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Tenshi
Everyone's Peachy Lil' Bitch
Joined: 31 May 2002
Posts: 386
Location: Newport News
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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- Women's sports! Yes! The idea that women and men cannot compete in the same environment because to garner attention from men they have to market women's sports sexually because that's the only way to get the interest. Women's soccer recently turned down a proposal to shorten women's shorts to make the sport more appealing to male fans; the female athletes during the Olympics were upset because they had female "dancers" dancing during the middle of their volleyball games to help boost ratings. To quote one of them, "if there had been male dancers during our games, that would have been all right" (I have the article if you want it). As if it isn't bad enough, female athletes are "less" than male athletes because you have to sex them up to get [male] attention.
- I'm fully aware of the concept of a woman putting herself on display to garner attention or for self satisfaction, an argument which different parties pitch different ways for different agendas, ranging from patriarchial societal ideals to feminist self-empowerment. But we move from there. There are arguments to and against the whole "display" thing. "It would make them sluggish to act" blah blah blah, so, wouldn't the same hold true for a semi-naked man, since so many men seem to be "taken aback" by the sight or thought of exposure? And as for animalistic roles... using them in an argument... is that to say that these women in these games are out fighting to find the perfect mate to bang them up so they can have babies and raise them and that is their only purpose? Since, according to most character backstories that isn't the case... I don't think it's valid.
| Mark_Y wrote: | | Isn't her name Taki, not Tira? Or is it someone new in SC3? Taki in SC2 had the same ludicrous mammaries. |
- Taki is the one from SB, SC, and SC2 with the huge breasts in the spandex top who also somehow has Olympic athlete muscles.
- Tira is the one whose breasts don't seem to fall out of the top half of her shirt. Shown above.
| Mark_Y wrote: | | Regarding footwear, doesn't Heihachi or someone fight in ridiculous wooden shoes? (Granted, not as bad as heels, but still. . . .) |
- Heihachi wears a traditional Japanese shoe, unisex. To my knowledge most samurai also faught in those. They're glorified sandals with wooden wedges on the bottom of them, but the sole of the shoe / wooden surface is still flat, and does not offset the natural position of the heel.
---
- But one thing bothers me. If, supposedly, they are just following social trends with these games, even if the trends are stupid and make no sense for a fighting game... why aren't most of the "young male" designs using loose baggy pants / shorts hung halfway down the thighs? Sure they should trip up and can't kick and half to clutch their pants to hold them up, but hey, if women can fight in stiletto heels, I don't see the problem.
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- Jaeda
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biggerUniverse
Mage
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 326
Location: A small, b/g planet in the unfashionable arm of the galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 2:29 am Post subject: |
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Tenshi's point is simple. It comes to this: Men like to see pretty things.
I say it that way for a reason- not only is it superficial (see) it's also degrading (things) and unequal(men).
Tenshi is arguing against these things. Since this is a game development forum, female game characters are the context of the discussion.
Now, since the argument is going nowhere, I will ask this: What is each of you trying to accomplish in this discussion?
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