RPGDX > Forums > Off Topic > Tell me you did not just take GDR down

LeoDraco · Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:25 am Post subject:

As the last time I was at GDR was shortly after writing that little rant there, I was, obviously, shocked when I attempted to access it a few minutes ago to find Mandrake's little message. For what it is worth, if, by posting the message that I did, I had in any way contributed to the apparent escalating of that thread, I offer my most humble apologies. While Mandrake's action seems to be slightly extreme, I completely understand his reasoning for doing so.

Fascinatingly enough, after reading through the thread, and responding, I decided to look into the original poster's site, more or less to get a feel for him. Assuming the age information is accurate (which, by the content of the site, seems to be the case), I cannot say that I am surprised at his particular interests.

But yeah: I would prefer GDR doesn't die (and cheers to the other admins --- as well as Mandrake, of course --- for taking the steps to reresurrect it after this); I have found the place more stimulating recently than RPGDX.

That, and I'm already going into design challenge withdrawl...
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Nodtveidt · Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject:

It was Mandrake's property, so it was his decision. He has his reasons, and there are indeed legitimate and very valid. Although I don't think, mandrake, you are really suited to make the kind of judgement call you did on the whole "it doesn't work that way" (because frankly, it does), you were wise to remove the thread.
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If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

Mandrake · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:10 am Post subject:

Actually, since I host the site, I am the only person suited in making that judement call.
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Nodtveidt · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:30 am Post subject:

tcaudilllg · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:34 am Post subject:

Would someone PM me the text of this thread? I mean, surely the response by the players has scientific value. I promise I'll keep it to myself.

It's not every day that perfectly normal people are presented with such an odd suggestion... let alone a taboo one.

You can leave the links out, I just want the text.

Nodtveidt · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:16 am Post subject:

I would but I don't have it. As I said before, Mandrake was wise to remove it.
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If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

RuneLancer · Mage Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 441

You could just post a thread about your very own pedophilic game, LG, and see how people here react. I'm sure it'd be very enlightening. :P

I take no responsabilities in anyone being banned or alienated from the community over this, should you go through with it...
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Nodtveidt · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:41 am Post subject:

By the way...I find the whole thing to be extremely hypocritical. I see some are saying "a pedophaelic game will turn people into pedophiles or justify the action!". Hello people...are we forgetting something here? How about the huge stink people raised over the actual outcome of games like GTA:SA? Or reaching back into history...games like AD&D or Mortal Kombat? Did these games do what all the knuckleheads said they did (such as turned children into Satanists or caused people to kill each other)? Of course not! So why are some of you raising a stink from the opposite side of the fence? Are we all not some of the same people who thought Jack Thompson was a clueless piece of shit who had no idea what the fuck he was talking about?

While I don't really think that the game is a good idea for legal reasons, I personally see no real moral objections to the game, for the very same reason that I see no moral objections to GTA:SA, MK, or AD&D...they're just games. I have a daughter of my own, and when she is old enough to understand, she will be educated on the many evils that some people do, and pedophiles will be near the top of the list.

I write games that include genocide, rape, torture, war, destruction of other people's property, homosexuality, alcohol, deceit, revenge, hatred, misery, and all kinds of other things that are often looked at as "bad" (many of which actually are). But does that mean I condone them? Of course not...they're just games. (Don't get me wrong though...I've got nothing against homosexuality.)

Education is the key to prevention, not ignorance or censorship. And while we can sit around and point the finger at all the "bad people" all day long, that doesn't change their actions or intentions...people will do what they want regardless of what you do or say, whether they know it's hurting someone else or not, and whether it's legal or not. So whining about it isn't gonna accomplish jack shit...you have to take a proactive stance in your own life against what is wrong, you have to defend yourself.

As I said though...mandrake, it was on your forum, under your ownership, you had every right to remove it, as the place was your rules, your time, and your money. Anyone who disagrees with this key factor is an idiot.

EDIT: And I can guarantee at least one person is going to do one of two things here: (1) completely misinterpret what I've said, or (2) conveniently take things out of context and try to use them as an argument against me. It's not gonna work...don't bother.
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If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

RuneLancer · Mage Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 441

I don't think you're justified in talking about this sort of thing, nodtveidt. And I quote...

Nodtveidt · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:42 am Post subject:

Nephilim · Mage Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Posts: 414

white_door · Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:46 am Post subject:

Lets not get drawn into the arguement of if playing a game either leds to actions protrayed in those games. Some would agree that they don't, some would disagree. Whatever.

This is a different matter. At some point you have to decide on the acceptablity of a game's content. And provided no laws are broken, the author is the only one who has a right to decide what is acceptable in their game. However, when they advertise or show material from the game on someone's site.. it then also comes down to the runner of the site to decide if that content is acceptable for their site.

I personally I don't understand this bizarre belief that people have when posting on an internet forums. For some reason they think they have some right to Free Speech or something. You have the right to free speech on your own site. When you are on someone else's site, that right belongs to them.

Looking at it from a purely objective point of view, if mandrake felt the content of the post was unacceptable he should have the right to remove it without question or without having to prove his case.

Personally I was so sickened by that post, and if I was seriously considering leaving indie programming community perminately if nothing was done about it. I'm glad someone had the backbone to stand up for what they believe in. That post just went too far, way past any sort of sane level of torrence.

RuneLancer · Mage Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 441

Don't let one bad apple spoil the rest of the pie for you, white_door. :P There's always going to be some immature/immoral/imwhatever person in every field you stumble on that'll be there to ruin things for others, wether they realise it or not. Often, they don't, or they know they're crossing a line others will object to them crossing, but do so anyways and hope for the best.

If anything, you should see it as a reason to work on better projects. For the sake of balancing out the crap they drag into the community. ;)
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An OpenGL RPG in the making. Now with new hosting!

NyanNyanKoneko · Wandering Minstrel Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 98

OK, I was the last person to post in that thread, so here's what happened.

Leo posted something where he said that the idea was bad.

I backed up Leo.

We both said stuff along the lines that it'll attract both Pedophiles and immature children to the site.

Anyways...

Rew started to flip out and wrote a very long 30- 60+ line paragraph rant about how offended everyone else is and that he hates their attitudes and they should leave the thread if they are offended.

I tried to calm him down by saying we just didn't like the idea, but we weren't offended.

But by the time I wrote that, he had wrote another reply in which he was clearly just trying to troll by saying how he hates women, blah blah...

Anyways, Then he posted again trying to get into a fight with me. But, like I said, he was clearly trying to troll. So I ignored him.

So the final posts were...

Leo - Your idea is juvinile.
Me - Your idea could be dangerous
Rew - Long paragaph rant about how if people are offended they should leave.
Rew - Another long paragraph rant about how he hates women.
Me - Trying to calm Rew down, but was posted after his second post because he wrote it while I was writing this post.
Rew - Thinking he got bait, tried to start a fight with another rant.
Sirocco - Now that we got in touch with our feelings... lock.

Anyways, Rew was just trolling. Beyond his obvious troll behavior, I went to his forum, and he had links to all the forums where people got offended at his idea, and how happy he was. GDR was listed before it got shut down.