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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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 Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Let's dissect a typical flame. :)
| Rew wrote: | | Silly rabbits. |
Opening condescending flame. Notice how this one belittles the reader; flamers and trolls tend to rely on their words to make themselves sound big by belittling others. Very typical, but not offensive enough to insule the reader yet. The post continues, and the reader is not yet angered enough to blindly cast aside everything being posted. Good opening move!
| Rew wrote: | | The whole "legal issue" is not a concern to me, seeing as this game is breaking no laws what-so-ever. |
As with any well-written post, the flamer/troll states his point (however biased it may be). Notice, however, that the opening statement will not offer proof just yet; the proof in itself, often, is the "meat" of the flame.
| Rew wrote: | | The board being taken down was completely justified, the owner did not prefer that type of content on his site, it was his decision to make. Stop bitching at him. |
Of course, it is well-known that flamers will ignore whatever has been posted in the thread that doesn't have anything to do with them directly. In this case, we can plainly see his inability to read the posts that justified Mandrake's actions and supported them entirely on the grounds that it was his decision and made for valid reasons. This is to be expected.
Sometimes, this kind of post is made in an attempt to gain support from the factions least likely to strike back at the flamer/troll.
| Rew wrote: | | I've stated over and over again that the "Pedophile" race is just one of many, many, races to be added to this "neo-reality" based MMORPG. The pedophile race is just the most obscene, so the theory was that anyone who is willing to work on that one would have no problem with any other feature of the game (seeing as they all pale in comparison to that, moral wise). I think everyone might be taking things a little too seriously. |
Ah. The final paragraph before we can get down to business. At this point, an attempt to remain civil is maintained: wouldn't want the reader to lose interest and discard the post as a mere flame. Besides, SOME credibility is required to make the flame valid, hence an attempt at justifying something.
Note, however, that flames do not offer objective proof supporting their opening statement (ie, "I feel this is justified because it is my belief that xyz.") Don't worry, it gets better. :)
| Rew wrote: | | Let's take into account that thousands of children are raped every day, this game will change nothing. Although if it does come to the media's attention they will point out one of the thousands of daily cases and blame it on the game. If anything it will help shed light on a very important issue, it will surface a touchy subject that people would rather ignore than fix. |
At this point, the flame has fallen into abject subjectivity and no attempts to obtain any intelligent informations from it can be made by anyone anymore. Attempts to justify something considered by pretty much every civilized society as wrong are common. Trolls, after all, know best. They bring the light to our poor, scared minds which cannot comprehend how raping babies is something that we must all know about and experience, be it firsthand or through other players.
Nothing wrong with that, right? We can all do with a little baby-raping; it's just like stomping mushrooms in Mario, and hell, that was PERFECTLY appropriate for us when we were young. The concept can still apply. Right? Right?
| Rew wrote: | | Pedophilia isn't always "child rape", by the way. If anything it is taking advantage of the innocents of a child, most of the time it isn't even sexual. |
Here, the troll attempts to further justify their cause. In this case, it's ok to portray pedophilia in a game and force the players to deal with it because, most of the time, it isn't even sexual.
No. It doesn't have to make sense. It's a flame.
| Rew wrote: | | I do appreciate all the free advertising though, I've noticed a slight jump in the old statistics page due to referrals coming from this and other forums of the same topic. Although this was not my first intention, I must say it's a nice little perk. |
Flames, however, don't always attempt to justify something. That would just be whining. No, flames must also attempt to make the reader feel as though they "lost" in a way.
Like all other content, this is one-sided. In this case, for instance, no attempts to offer proof is made, nor is the fact the extra visits might be by angry developpers. After all, it all works in favor of the troll that way.
Yes people, we've been owned. It is with great sadness that I must continue my review of this flame.
| Rew wrote: | | The MMORPG I have stated is still in the works, and will be developed. Despite all of the heat directed at the mere MENTION of the game, it will be released. |
Moving on.
| Rew wrote: | | There will be no cost to play, no advertising, no money involved in the least. Therefore there can be no legal action taken over the material. Also, there will be a warning splash page about the content, and an advisory that anyone under the age of 18, or anyone easily offended, should leave immediately and not participate in the game. |
This is typical of troll stupidity. Trolls are often so caught up with themselves that they fail to understand something as basic as "Your ideas are not welcomed here." They will continue to post about it as though they'd expect to gather a following (see the above points, near the start of the flame, about trying to get the support of others.)
Of course, troll logic surfaces again here by claiming that, because something is free, it cannot be touched by the law. And that pedophilia is ok if you're 18 or older (isn't that a little contradictory? :) )
| Rew wrote: | | You guys are fun to watch though, keep up the good posts. |
As with the opening post, the closing post is another attempt to be condescending. In this case, "LOL@u!" While written in a calm, none-insulting manner, it fails by being the most basic of condescending remarks. Shame. Gonna have to mark off some points on this one.
Final evaluation is as follows.
Insults: 4 / 10 (Sorry, that last line ruined it. You were off to a great start though...)
Troll-Logic: 9 / 10 (Nearing perfection! Almost entirely lacking logic. Almost!)
Uninformed Statements: 7 / 10 (The troll-logic covers for this too much; it's still quite present, and gets good points.)
Spelling: 1 / 10 (Not even one use of shorthand... dissapointing!)
Final Score: 52.50%
Slightly above average, but not enough to earn a passing grade. Sorry mate, you fail. You're gonna have to take remedial flaming this summer. :(
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Rew
Lowly Slime
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Also,
The case about the man being arrested for child pornography in his journal.
He was a previous sex offender, and he was on probation. He broke specific state laws. According to Ohio, even literature about pedophelia is considered child pornography. Not to mention, he had child pornography pictures on his computer.
Added:
"Here, the troll attempts to further justify their cause. In this case, it's ok to portray pedophilia in a game and force the players to deal with it because, most of the time, it isn't even sexual. "
The MMORPG is based on reality, the real-real world. Meaning, things like pedophilia can't just be "ignored". They are part of the real world, they are part of the game.
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tcaudilllg
Dragonmaster
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 1731
Location: Cedar Bluff, VA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Haven't we really heard enough about this? Rew, please mail me your results from the OKCupid test.
Bjorn, don't you think it just could be a good idea to lock this topic? I mean, really, the guy has already probably picked up attention from the FBI.
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Nodtveidt
Demon Hunter
Joined: 11 Nov 2002
Posts: 786
Location: Camuy, PR
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Rew isn't a terrorist. The FBI wouldn't care. Although IMO. this thread should be deleted and Rew banned from this forum.
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If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace
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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Hey, bans occure in MMORPGs too; it's an accurate portrayal of reality, and I'm all for giving us silly rabbits something to reaffirm our existence. :)
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Rew
Lowly Slime
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:28 am Post subject: |
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It would be easier just to ask me to leave. Not that I intend to, but I can always proxy and sign up again.
Yeah, the FBI really cares what I say about pedophilia on the internet.
Fuck kids, I love seeing them get raped and tortured, I think it's hilarious. I encourage and condone all acts of sexual violence and mutilation. There we go, that will give the "FBI" something to get mad about.
That whole "Pedophile gets arrested for keep a personal journal of stories" or whatever is an invalid arguement. If you actually look into it, it happend in Ohio. Ohio state law considers even writen fantasy of pedophelia child pornography, and against the law. Also, he was a known sex offender, he was on probation for molesting a child. Not to mention they found him downloading child porn on his computer.
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NyanNyanKoneko
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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I know you're just trolling, but...
| Quote: | | Not to mention they found him downloading child porn on his computer. |
A good family friend of ours got in huge trouble for that.
He worked at some engineering / design firm. He had a multimillion dollar mansion, was married, and had sent two kids off to college.
One day, however, he was found to have been not only downloading kidding porn, but I think also making / distributing it by soliciting kids over internet chat networks. Furthermore, he was using the work computers to do it.
Needless to say, he lost his job, lost his money, and got sent to jail while his wife got really sick.
Not good stuff.
On a side note, Rew. I post on a very conservative christian political message board. If you can get a website up and some mock screenshots going, I'd be interested in sending them a link and watching them flip out. You'd probably get a bunch of nasty Christians calling the FBI and calling you satan. Though unlikely, you might even get phone calls from Fox News. =P
God, it'll be hillarious to watch their reactions.
So yeah, hurry up and put together a page. It'll be awesome.
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RuneLancer
Mage
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| NyanNyanKoneko wrote: | | God, it'll be hillarious to watch their reactions. |
I second this statement. I really do. :D
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biggerUniverse
Mage
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 326
Location: A small, b/g planet in the unfashionable arm of the galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Wow. What have I missed?
I'd say that whoever posted about a MMOG with pedophila (I can't be bother to read all this) to the forum should have been IP banned, and the thread removed, but dropping the forum is not a good precedent.
That's putting a forum-stopping veto power in the hands of whomever is evil enough to use it.
NyanNyan, religion is for religious forums (unless it is a philosphical discussion relating to games). I don't want to know your denomination.
Rew, in the gaming-gaming world of RPGDX/GDR/Pixelation/TMW/java-gaming/(wherever else the people here are members of), you are on probation. I'm sure you will remain that way for a long time.
If you want to talk real-real MMOGs (sans-pedophila, and other serious crimes), no one will fault you. In doing so, you will probably find that a MMOG can be real-real without granular detail in evil. In focusing so minutely, you are showing a general lack of game design skill. Many designers go through this phase, it is unfortunate that yours had to swerve so far into the abhorant.
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NyanNyanKoneko
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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NyanNyan, religion is for religious forums (unless it is a philosphical discussion relating to games). I don't want to know your denomination. |
What does that supposed to mean? When did I start talking about my religion?
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tunginobi
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| NyanNyanKoneko wrote: | | Quote: |
NyanNyan, religion is for religious forums (unless it is a philosphical discussion relating to games). I don't want to know your denomination. |
What does that supposed to mean? When did I start talking about my religion? |
Umm...
| NyanNyanKoneko wrote: | | On a side note, Rew. I post on a very conservative christian political message board. |
But that aside, this is just pointless nitpicking. But I don't care. Believe what you want to, or what you have to believe. I'll happily leave you to live your life in peace in that respect, just like everybody else.
I'm noticing a lot of people are losing the focus about what this community is all about. This place isn't about deciding who's right or wrong about particular points, and I don't think it's about who doesn't like which parts of who.
This place is about coming together as a community, and supporting one another as we develop role-playing games, doing what we can for each other, when we can.
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NyanNyanKoneko
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 98
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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I never mentioned my religion, just that I post on a conservative christian political message board, and so I could easily wig a bunch of people out with Rew's website. It sounds like you're jumping to conclusions...
People are flipping out over something I never have done nor was planning to do.
I'm just curious why the second I mention something remotely related to religion, people jump on me and say stop. I realize this is an RPG development board, and we should be talking about RPG stuff, but other than that, this seems excessive. People go off topic all the time.
I'm just getting the feeling that maybe some people here have something against people of faith or something.
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BadMrBox
Bringer of Apocalypse
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 1022
Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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NyanNyanKoneko: Thats the best thing that could have happened to that asshat.
Pedophiles are the scum of the bloody earth. Anybody that supports them is seconed. Norway wants to castrate pedophiles. I happily supports them and hope a similar law comes to be in Sweden.
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I'm just getting the feeling that maybe some people here have something against people of faith or something. |
Are you just playing stupid?
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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
Location: Location:
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I have something against people of faith.
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BadMrBox
Bringer of Apocalypse
Joined: 26 Jun 2002
Posts: 1022
Location: Dark Forest's of Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe not people of faith but what they put faith in?
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