[Ninkazu]

Both. Faith drives people to do irrational and evil things.

[Nodtveidt]

It's true that religious faith drives people to do irrational things. Look at how many wars have been started by religious zealots. But instead of hating these people or holding a grudge against them, we should be trying to open their eyes to the real truths in life.

On the subject: I knew Norway had some fucked up laws but that's taking it way too far. That is a complete and total human rights violation.
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If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices. The scary part is that if you play it forwards it installs Windows. - wallace

[NyanNyanKoneko]

[Ninkazu]

A lot of people in cults can be nice too. It's these docile sheep that give groups power of numbers and thus influence in the world. Then the real nut jobs can go do their bullshit. Nazis, anyone? People are moved by good orators. It doesn't mean they're right.

Faith is made out to be this oh-so-honorable thing, giving yourself up to God and that jazz, but it's just an excuse to not explain yourself. I believe in all things empirical and logical. That belief is not in the same realm as religion though, since new studies and new data can entirely change my views on things without me making a big fit. Go check out the article out there of the Catholic church ADMITTING that there are a lot of falsities in the bible. "Oh ya, the Catholics. They've been fucked since the beginning." Ok, sure. Yes. It's non-arguable that they've done horrible things. That doesn't mean other sects haven't. Catholics also have canons, the scientific priests who go out and disprove "miracles" and try to find truth behind the bible's teachings. This is how they found so much to be wrong. Science.

I can't abolish religion. That isn't the best route to get people to think. I can however oppose this wave of ID bullshit that's overrun this country. If there is anyone out there in the real world with an open mind (actually takes facts and considers them rather than shutting down telling himself, "this is just a test from God and I won't submit") then I can reason with him that his religion is bunk. I can show that Christianity is bullshit. I can show that Islam is bullshit. I can show anything is bullshit.

Does this mean I'm against morals? Fuck no. I don't think you have to believe in all these stupid old stories that people kill each other over just to show some common decency (ironic). Morality doesn't come from fear as many theists would love to argue. It comes from logic and the acceptance of community. Think Confucianism. I'm not saying that Confucianism is THE religion. I'm just saying that there is a bit of truth there saying that people adapt their feelings and behavior from their surroundings, AKA community.

I'm not saying this to start a flamewar. I'm saying this so I can just get this out there. If you want to talk about this, let's do so via IM or PM or whatever. This is a programming forum and not Neozone's "philosophy" forum (Calvinist pissings).

Let's let this thread die, since I posted it just wondering what happened to GDR. It's back up and all good. No more worries.

[BadMrBox]

Agreed. This thread has gone way of topic.
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