[_Mandrake_]

allright, the last mini compo was quite a failure. I think the main reason was:
1. the insane limatations
and:
2. the amount of time.

A week is too long, too much time spent. I have some ideas for the next compo, tell me what you all think:

idea:
Engine compo. Everyone spends 48 hours building a generic RPG engine in the language of there choosing. They code must be open source, and the engine must have a non-restrictive user liscense so others can use it in the future.

On the deadline, everyone must have the engine source uploaded with a binary example program, showing off all of the features for the engine (but not being a full game).

Type of engine: Open. As long as it can be used to make an RPG with. Minumum requirements: Being able to load and render a tile based map, and have a sprite move on it. Collision. NPC's (not necassarily walking, though). Conversations with NPC's. Being able to move to other maps. A simple map editor. Documentation on how to use the engine.

Catagories to win:
best demo.
most features
easiest to use
best documentation
best overall engine.
most unique.


what do you guys think?

[Bjorn]

My first impression about this contest, is that it's impossible. I spend a day working on a conversation window alone, a week to get a nice engine-scripting interface and a few more days to get a sprite-based generic tile engine working smoothly. But maybe that's just me...

[Edit 2: what's with the edited message? I don't want people updated about my every spelling correction....]

[Edit 3: Oh, BTW Mandrake. Can you please try to think about a more fitting topic title?]

[Modanung]

I've got two words for you: BAD IDEA! No offense.
I don't know anything about programming an engine... Not even about programming. So why did I post this post? Bjørn, my brother, gave some reasons for not having an enginecompo.

[mandrake!]

none taken. See, you guys are thinking way too complicated...heh. Did you read my minimal description? we are talking a simple library here, not a complex engine.

Scale down a bit, look at my minimal requirements. Remember, this isn't a "build an RPGmaker of the gods" contest, it's building a simple engine. Very simple. Something that could be extended in the future to become complicated.

Hell, scripting isn't even a necassity, I'm talking tile engine, sprites, conversational engine. That's it. Why did you spend a day working on the window alone (may I ask?)? A conversation window is pretty simplistic, IMHO.

if you are using allegro, just abuse the text width and height functions, as well as the bitmap ->h and bitmap ->w varaibles. I think it took me only a few hours to come up with a flexible conversation box function.

basicly, until now, all the compos we've been building engines from scratch (at least i and a few others) that were more complicated can this.

[Rainer Deyke]

Cons:
- It is unlikely that any any created in 48 hours is actually good enough to be used for a real game.
- I'm not real happy about the open source requirement, since this puts additional pressure on me to write clean code and limits my ability to reuse code from other projects.

Pros:
- Practice in engine writing.
- The engine could be used as the basis for a "real" engine.

Verdict: I am in favor, and will probably participate.

BTW, is it really necessary to write a map editor? I can write a better map editor than TileStudio, but I can't do it in 48 hours, so what's the point?

[Guest]

Depending on when the compo was, I may or may not be able to participate. Basically if I had the computer all day for 2 days I could do it easy. It's not that hard to make a little map editor that loads targas for tiles and then lets you paint the tiles on a landscape, then do some of that other stuff.

But the open source thing... I don't want anyone seeing my code. Not that I'm afraid of it being stolen, but I have a very individualized style that I'd rather not be exposed to scrutiny.

[Mandrake~!]

ok, i understand the open source concerns, so a better way to put it is that you can upload it as a compiled library (closed source but still usable by others). No one ever said the map editor had to be better than tile studio, just that it had to be there. Consider it part of the practice in making an engine.

anyway, this is just an idea still. If anyone else has ideas for the next compo, feel free to post them here.

[Bjorn]

Ok, a simple engine could indeed be done in 2 days...

Why does it take a whole day to program a conversation window? Well, the main complication was that I wanted time to continue while it would write the text and wait for keys etc. It was also implemented in a Lua table. So basically I needed to program a small state machine, with about 5 states. The first time I tried this it became much too complicated so I had to start over, the second one was done in a few hours but together it would make a whole day.

[mandrake!]

egh, yeah i had the same problem with the GUI system in the first compo....one of the reasons "Underground Alice" never got finished.

so, possible or not, do you guys think this would be fun? I mean that is the most important point of these compos, and if the engine idea doesn't sound interesting we can easily scrap it.

ps- bjorn, please don't change my subjects, sure they are eclectic and not really having anything to do with the actual context of the message....but that's my perogative and my posting habits. It just feels weird to have the topic being changed like that...violated...

[janus]

Building an engine can be done in 2 days; however, building an editor takes much longer (unless you want your editor to suck ass)

[Mandrakeooo]

not really. i mean yes, if your going to drown it with useless RAD features, sure, but if you keep it slim, simple and extendable, then no.

just because it's basic, doesn't mean it sucks ass.

[janus]

Show me ONE app with an editor made in less than a week that doesn't have a lame-ass interface or absolutely no useful features. Personally, if a maker doesn't have RAD features, then why not just write a game engine from scratch? The whole reason to use makers is because they are RAD.

Look! For the compo I made 'Triple Triad Minigame Maker 2001'. It creates triple triad minigames, and all you have to do is click a button! A surefire winner.

[Bjorn]

Ok, sorry about changing the topic. Generally I am rather annoyed by topic titles that say nothing about whats a thread about, it happens on other forums too. I won't make a habit of changing your titles.

I don't really feel like joining this compo just because of the fact that I will just be repeating previous work. I still need to make a few additions to our current editor and engine before continueing on game content.

But I haven't got anything done since the UT2003 demo came out... I've been totally addicted to the game since then. It's getting serious so I'm going to try forcing myself to do other stuff...

[mandrakerrrr]

that's quite alright bjorn. and this isn't the "will be the next compo or else" kinda thing, if you don't think it will be fun for any reason, then yeah, we can do whatever else. btw janus:

[Tenshi]

- Back when I wrote the first version of my Map editor, it took me less than 2 days to get the main interface and editing complete. Adding the bells and whistles is what took much longer. It took much less time to make the second and third versions, but again, bells and whistles (and ERROR [on the user side] CATCHING) is what took so long). =T
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- Jaeda