[Hajo]

Hi,

I'm currently pondering if a steep or a flat progression for character advancement is better.

In some games I see a level 1 character to have ~30 HP and a hight level character to have ~800 HP or more.

This looks rather steep to me.

I see the same for items. Entry level armor has a defense of ~20, high level armor has ~400, and really good armor can have ~2000.

This is even more steep.

I see the idea behind this though, the player needs a noticeable difference from level to level, to have the feeling that they really grow stronger. So this means a certain limit on how flat progression can be, below that players would not feel any advancement.

I still don't like the idea of a high level character having 20 times the HP of a new character, even less the armor progression which has a factor of 100.

Having a flatter progression curve would also allow players to venture deeper into the game until it becomes too difficult, since the progression of monsters is also slower. This assumes the game has no other boundaries but the increasing danger for a player walking "deeper" into the game. It would also allow players of greater level difference to team up sensibly, since the differences in their abilities are not so big.

I think there are factors that speak for a flatter curve, except this one, to keep the player feel the progression, make him want the next level since this means a big advancement for him. It basically kills this part of motivation in level-based games :(

What to do? Are there ways to have a flat progression curve, say a level 1 player starts with 30 HP and a high level player having 60? Doubling is already much, but over a span of 60 level, this would not even mean 1HP plus per level, too little to make a difference on leveling up.

I assume such a game needs different ways to keep players motivated. But what can one do, there?

[Ninkazu]

If you can make the challenge difficult enough at each level, you won't necessarily have you have 2000 HP to fight.

Players don't care about those singular numbers at all. Simply what defines their strength in the world.

Think of some rewards - powerful items that can't be used until a certain level, allow more spells to be cast, open up STORY OPPORTUNITIES.

Let me explain the last one. Say you start the game at level one. You're an exceptional peasant, ya? Still nothing to shake a stick at. However say you've become level 30. Now the empire has been watching you for a long time and craves your help with its internal crisis. You have to have enough to do in the game for the player to not have to grind to that level to continue though.

There's a lot that can be done. Morrowind I never cared about what my HP was. For a while I just wanted more fatigue. Running out of magic quickly was a pain too. Skills were very important in Morrowind, and the system is pretty non-linear (check out the equation some time). It kept the game seamless and pretty balanced too. The problem came when I would consistently find 40,000 GP items, sell them for 10,000 each and go to the different masters, training my skills all to max. Then I was godly, flying around using my ban hammer on all who looked at me funny.

Make the game fun and not the player's enemy, and I'm sure they won't come back and yell that their HP is only 120 at level 60 (unless your equations make that extremely weak against enemies around that level).

[Verious]

I tend to enjoy games that have a lower point system (three digits or less) and represent the numbers graphically (as bar graphs or guages). In those games, the levels tend to be close to one another and I suspect, behind the scenes, most of the games are probably based on a 100 point scale.

I always thought armor with a defense of 2000 was a little silly.

Some of the most innovative games (imho) only show an item's strength in relation to other items. For example, if you have a club equiped and you are in a shop looking at a sword, the sword might say "stronger" or "much stronger", this completely abstracts away the actual numbers and does not break the immersion.

I guess, I'm a little off topic, but that's my two cents.

[cowgod]

What about something in between?

Let's say your HP is based on your Health and your level. At higher levels, your Health will be higher, so you'll gain more HP. Also, when your Health goes up, your HP should be increased for all previous levels at all.

Let's say your Health starts at 50, and you gain Health / 2 HP per level. And every level your Health goes up by 1. Here's your stats for the first 10 levels:

1 Health: 50, HP: 25
2 Health: 51, HP: 51
3 Health: 52, HP: 78
4 Health: 53, HP: 106
5 Health: 54, HP: 135
6 Health: 55, HP: 165
7 Health: 56, HP: 196
8 Health: 57, HP: 228
9 Health: 58, HP: 261
10 Health: 59, HP: 295

And, no, I didn't do "integer division", where I round Health / 2 down before multiplying by the level.

If the character's Health stayed at 50, the HP at level 10 would only be 250. It's not a big difference, but it would actually matter if it affected all your statistics.

It would make an even bigger difference if HP = Health and Health starts at 25. How much of a difference you want it to make is up to you.