[Ashtoreth]

My team and I are currently working on a "public" information center for the project we're working on since a few weeks already. The project is basically a platformer with some RPG's vibes to it.

Being a relatively serious project (we are seriously considering getting subventions in the next few months to really kick start it. But we all realize that we will need more than a vague story board and concept art to actually attract good programmers (and artists alike)

We want to build a development information website, that gives a quick overview and an idea, without giving too much not to break the ND agreement we all took. The reason why we're so, pardon the expression, stuck up, about this, is that all of the important members of the team got (at least once, 3 times in my case) their ideas stolen by other studios (minor and a major names) Especially that every single one of the development team already work in the gaming industry, risks are higher.

For now we're not ready to release any graphics yet (we mostly have character designs, some level designed and very few sprite art so far as the project is really to its start)
And there is no way that the music will be ready (note that the music is one of the most important part of the game, we're dealing live instrument here, orchestral, studio recorded, in most cases. But I could link some of the compositor pieces and parts, a link to his website (problem is, it's French :P)

The engine is not online, but the old version was used for some games already. (I could send a link from it, but I did not design the game it self, our head engine programmers did)

What I'm asking here, is what could I say about the project it self, without fear of some studios (independent or big, we're mostly afraid of the big studios, you'll be surprise of the things they can steal and call their own) leeching our things, before we even have the time to get the legal stuff sorted out.

Thanks

Ashy.

[Hajo]

Sometimes publishing everything rather early is best to make sure you can prove ownership of the work. This is also part of the reason why I favour open source for my projects lately. Noone can steal what is available at no cost anyways.

If the other publishes first, you have a hard time to say it is yours, and they stole it.

But someone has tried to sell one of my games, even that people could have been gotten it for free from my homepage ... it's hopeless in a way. I didn't do much, if people don't see the game is free but pay, I cannot help them :(

So yeah. Good luck for your team and your project :) I hope you find the right balance between open and closed, publicity and secrecy.

[Ashtoreth]

we're not going open source , we're still thinking about if we sell the game on pc for a really small price, or if I dig up deeper and go for consoles. Chances are we'll just give the game are possible, but slim compared to the first. (the consoles ideas is there mostly because a contact of mine might be interested in taking the game under his license, but I'm not really up for that)

We're not making this for money, but the recording material has to be done, it's a too "big" of a project to stay open source unfortunately.
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[Hajo]

If you are self-publishing and not too outgoing with your project you should well stay under the studios radar. And if your idea is radically new, you should be even more safe, since the big players do not like radically new ideas, but rather variations of ideas that are proven to work.

But you're doing good to be careful.

RampantCoyote has more experience with indy games that still get some sales. Maybe he has some tips for you.

I've always tried to keep money out of my projects, since it seemed to be a source of problems ... but it also makes things easier if you actually can buy services for what you cannot do yourself.

[Ashtoreth]

so far, everyone is working for free, including the musicians who are just too eager to make video game music (jeez, you should see chuck (our composer) literally bounces around like a overly cheerful schoolgirl when he's reading the level layout and storyboard for the musics. He needed a reason to compose with the orchestra again, and he got it.

the programmers are all in for free as well as some artists. But we'll need quality animation, so we might pay for that, since there's going to be a -lot- (scary how much we will have animations) of sprites animation :S

we'll definitely look to recruit people who really wants to join the project for fun though, we don't want to pay someone who doesn't want to, rather than taking someone who would love to do. Most of the time the work is better if the person wants to work
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I'm just too lazy to make my own sig ;)

[RampantCoyote]

Free? What's that? I have to pay for the privilege! :)

Sadly, it's too true... though I do have a team-member who is doing level design for free, thankfully. But I've been definitely pouring the pittance I make at RampantGames.com into my game development efforts.

Anyway, you are getting into one of my favorite topics here. So permit me a little bit of a rant.

On the one hand, you've got this guy. It's just not worth it, there's no money to be made, he poured his heart and soul (and money) into his "dream game" and it didn't pay off in the least.

However, I don't entirely agree with him. On several points, actually. Though I do empathize with him.

Here's my take on it (besides what is posted in the above link):

The bad news is that there is no market for indie RPGs, to speak of. Maybe I may be using bad terminology here, but that's the way it is. There are people who buy indie RPGs, but there aren't many actively hunting out "indie RPGs.," exactly. They just happen to discover Fate, or Aveyond, or are hooked on Spiderweb's games. Or they hang out (somewhere?) and try out half-completed RPGMaker titles (or games written with some of the other engines here on this site). But there isn't an existing audience.

And that's a problem. However, I believe that there is a large (from an indie perspective) POTENTIAL MARKET. I just got an email yesterday from a guy who makes his living on an indie MMORPG asking what we can do to band together and effectively "grow the pie." We need to build the market. Build the audience from scratch, more or less.

That's a hard thing.

And I've committed myself to working on that very issue, and dedicating Rampant Games to that purpose. For very "enlightened self-interest" reasons.

#1 - I am overjoyed at the prospect of all of these cool indie RPGs coming out, and by growing the market, it means more quality indie RPGs *I* get to play as developers respond to growing demand.

#2 - I want to MAKE RPGs and actually have some kind of audience out there when I release them.

#3 - And I sure don't mind getting a piece of the action when I help game developers find customers. That helps me finance my first love, which is making these games. And helps me pay for advertising, which I'm going to start doing.

Sorry, I didn't really mean for this to be a post about what I'm doing, but I get all crusade-y and evangelical about this issue. I'm frankly a little annoyed at the direction the mainstream industry is taking RPGs --- not that it's necessarily bad, but they aren't exactly exploring the really cool branches that are available. I'd love to see the indies come up from behind and knock 'em on their butt exposing just how much fertile ground they are leaving behind and unexplored.

Anyway, I hope those article links (and the links those articles then go to) help a little bit.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[Ashtoreth]

Well, the reason why we started the project at first was for us (the 3 firsts members of the team) to be able to get experience hand first in developing a game, I did design some games before, but it's an ever ending learning experience. Nick, my main programmer already had his engine running, though far from being what it is today, was already pretty decent. Then what started to be a very small game with one or two levels, quickly grown into something far bigger than I would have anticipated. That made us realize we could maybe consider selling the thing to a low price, just to pay the hosting. We're going with the mentality "que cera, cera" if it pays in the end, well yay for us. We'll see the interests the people have in the story after the demo other things we have in mind. But what's more important for us is to make a game that we want to play. We just happen to be very exigent on that department ;)

In my opinion, but I've been known to be wrong before, there is a market for RPGs, but it's more open to the action type role playing games (I say that mostly with what I heard and saw with time and not based on anything else, please correct me if I'm wrong) I see gamers play some games every day and more and more of them are ready to pay for good games, just not ready to pay for a shitty studio games that was botched to the shelves without letting the development and Quality Control time to finish the thing (I'm thinking here about personal experience on some awfully destroyed, what could have been breathtaking, Game Play, visual and story wise) But Noooo, marketing and prods just have to push it on the shelves for chrismas, I heard a MAJOR studio producer say "gamers are so gullible they'll swallow everything we'll throw at them"

The thing is, we have a lot of people around here who wants to work in studios, but can't really get into without contacts from the inside (to then see their dreams shatters as working in the field is far from being what everyone dreams about ;))

And one of the best way to get into a studio, is to show your worth as an artist, programmer or even project manager.

I dont know if whatever I said made sense to anyone, but yea, like Coyote ;) I had to say.
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I'm just too lazy to make my own sig ;)

[RampantCoyote]

Sure, it makes sense.

By way of background, I *AM* a professional developer in the games industry. I took a hiatus for about six years there to work in the more stuffy business app development side of the fence, but I got sucked back in about 18 months ago.

I started in 1994 working on Playstation games like Twisted Metal, Warhawk, Jet Moto, etc. I most recently worked on an "MMORTS" called Saga, Space Station Tycoon for the Wii, and a canceled XBox 360 title. Oh, and I'm at a different company working on a game for multiple platforms that I cannot talk about right now.

But my heart is into indie game development. IMO, that's where the action is. Mainstream and having big budgets is cool and all, but it's really big business nowadays. The passion is in indie development, and I think those games have more personality and interesting concepts behind them than most mainstream games these days, which follow the path of least resistance.

I wouldn't worry too much about your ideas being stolen by a mainstream developer, too. Like the one quote (can't remember who said it) goes, if the idea is any good, you'll have to cram it down their throats.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[Ashtoreth]

Aaa good ol games :)

I'm kind of glad I got out of the major studios to be honest. I love the industry, but i used to work for Ubi, and hated it, pay was good, but the way it was, I hated. not as "old" as you in the field, but yea, you probably know the drill "starts QA then climb up" ;)
and you probably understand my hatred for rushing games ;)

But I'll check the articles on your site more :)
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I'm just too lazy to make my own sig ;)

[RampantCoyote]

I thought I remember you saying you were formerly from the pro dev side of things, but I wasn't sure if I'd imagined it or not.

Started in QA, huh? Man, QA in the games business is still not handled very well... while the rest of the software industry is finally beginning to take QA seriously.

Anyway... I dunno if it's me being a hypocrite or not, but I really don't want people thinking that being an indie is some kind of stepping stone to getting a job at a big studio. I agree that learning the ropes in the biz can be a VERY useful thing, but indies are in no way just "wannabes" for the mainstream industry.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[Ashtoreth]

hell no. for me, indie games are mostly a way for people who really want to create games for the sake of creating games to do it and not follow the guidelines of the big studios.

yea, I was QA for 2 years, I'm mostly dealing with graphical design now theses day though, even though I do help the QA team now, the advantage of being in a small biz means you get to try stuff, here at least.
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I'm just too lazy to make my own sig ;)

[Hajo]

[Ashtoreth]

[Hajo]

[Ashtoreth]

unfortunately, its not working like that

no studio what so ever will ever consider QA more than lowly pieces of shit, good only to rant and worth no amount of decent pay.

Where I work is no different on the pay side, but at least the developers knows QA is important ^^, so they respect us and actually talk to us (viva working in a small studio)
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I'm just too lazy to make my own sig ;)