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Hajo
Demon Hunter
Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Posts: 779
Location: Between chair and keyboard.
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 Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry for deleting my message in between. I got doubts by myself, and it's only from hearsay. Sorry again.
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cowgod
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 114
Location: Pittsburgh, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I live in the U.S., so that isn't really a problem.
The game won't have an ESRB rating unless it sells enough copies to make getting one a good idea. I doubt the game will ever be sold retail. If the previous games I've made are any indication, I'll probably be able to count the sales with the fingers on one hand.
| RampantCoyote wrote: | | If your games border on pornography, there may be other laws governing that. But then you'd totally lose my interest in them. |
The games I've made so far have been intended for all audiences, but the RPG will probably be targeted towards mature audiences only.
The RPG won't contain pornography. There won't be any nudity, and won't contain much (if any) gore. So, in some ways, the RPG will be more tame than alot of games out there. I do, however, want the game to contain some adult situations.
These adult situations would be similar in caliber to situations in Fallout 2. You'll be able to have sex with prostitutes, but all that will happen is that the screen will fade out and then back in (just like in Fallout 2).
There should be some sexual humor, and the game should address some issues that plague the world today. There's a line beyond which I don't want to cross, but I'm not sure exactly what the point is at which it would become overly offensive.
I have some ideas in mind, but I don't want to list potentially offensive topics on a public forum which probably contains a number of teenagers and some children. At some point, I would like to make a list of things that might appear in the game and show it to a few people to ask what is offensive and what isn't.
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Terry
Spectral Form
Joined: 16 Jun 2002
Posts: 798
Location: Dublin, Ireland
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to give yourself a rating for the hell of it, there's always TIGRS - "The Independent Game Rating System". Some shareware developers have started using them.
There's a bit of information about it on gameproducer.net. The official site is here.
Also, there's these, dreamt up over at the ever entertaining TIGSource:
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Verious
Mage
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 409
Location: Online
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Hajo wrote: | At least for my place, I have heard that games offered for download on sites must be suitable for children of 12 and older. Otherise your game needs a certification, which costs some money (~ 1000 euros if I'm not mistaken).
How will you distribute your game if it has an age rating higher than that? |
If there is an age requirement to use a credit card in your country, charging a very small fee ($1?) could be an easy way to validate someone's age.
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cowgod
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 114
Location: Pittsburgh, USA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Terry wrote: | | If you want to give yourself a rating for the hell of it, there's always TIGRS - "The Independent Game Rating System". Some shareware developers have started using them. |
I've bookmarked the site.
Thanks for pointing it out. I plan to use it for all my games simply because I can. It's good to have some way of indicating who the games are appropriate for without paying thousands of dollars.
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RampantCoyote
Demon Hunter
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 546
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: |
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Cowgod - it sounds like EXACTLY the sort of thing I'd be interested in, then.
I want more "grown up" titles. But what people claim to be "mature" or "adult" these days tends to be anything but.
As far as the independent rating system --- I have come to the conclusion that its not such a good idea. There are two reasons:
#1 - You provide a nice, easy-to-use tool for parents and customers to educate themselves, and suddenly the media and politicians twist it to their own purposes. Suddenly they want to make ESRB mandatory by law and make it a criminal offense to sell an M-Rated game (for ages 17+) to a 16-year-old kid. Yeah. No thank you.
#2 - The rating becomes not just a limiter to what age it is appropriate for, but the rating becomes misused as a filter to judge what audience it is intended for. For an example (in the U.S.) - when you see a "G" rated movie, what do you expect? A kids' movie, right? It might have subject matter entirely intended for adult viewers that simply lacks any objectionable content. But a movie like that would FLOP. So filmmakers feel obligated to throw in more "objectionable" content simply to clue in adult audiences that the film is intended for them.
Even without ratings, I know several book authors who complain of a similar problem - being labeled "juvenile literature" if they don't include a steamy sex scene.
So my preference for now is to avoid any kind of ratings whatsoever, but to include a note in the description of the game as to whether or not it should be considered "family friendly." Which is bad enough, I guess, but I do feel obligated to help where I can in an informal manner.
Okay, I'm off the soapbox for now.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz
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cowgod
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 114
Location: Pittsburgh, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:12 am Post subject: |
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I was about to add these ratings but decided that I can't really rate the games on my site that I didn't make. I signed up with an affiliate program for shareware games and also have some public domain free games. If I only add it for my own games, it would just look stupid.
| RampantCoyote wrote: | As far as the independent rating system --- I have come to the conclusion that its not such a good idea. There are two reasons:
#1 - You provide a nice, easy-to-use tool for parents and customers to educate themselves, and suddenly the media and politicians twist it to their own purposes. Suddenly they want to make ESRB mandatory by law and make it a criminal offense to sell an M-Rated game (for ages 17+) to a 16-year-old kid. Yeah. No thank you.
#2 - The rating becomes not just a limiter to what age it is appropriate for, but the rating becomes misused as a filter to judge what audience it is intended for. For an example (in the U.S.) - when you see a "G" rated movie, what do you expect? A kids' movie, right? It might have subject matter entirely intended for adult viewers that simply lacks any objectionable content. But a movie like that would FLOP. So filmmakers feel obligated to throw in more "objectionable" content simply to clue in adult audiences that the film is intended for them. |
You have a point. I think #2 is more of a concern in my case. If law makers were to make a real standard, they would use the actual ESRB ratings.
For the shareware game I'm selling now, it doesn't make much difference because it would mostly be kids playing it anyways. For the puzzle game I'm developing, it would be family friendly but mostly played by adults.
I can't really use the image just for the rpg and not use the family friendly image for the others...
Maybe I'll have one of those screens where it says "This download is for adults 18 years of age or older" prior to the download. The problem with that is that people think they're on a porno site.
Maybe I'll just have a couple sentences in bold at the top of the game's description or something like that.
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RampantCoyote
Demon Hunter
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 546
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, just say something like it contains "mature situations" or something and suggest that it is "not recommended for children." That softer language will suggest that it is NOT porn, yet also something that is intended for adult audiences.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz
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Captain Vimes
Grumble Teddy
Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 225
Location: The City Streets
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| Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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^ Listen to the man. He knows.
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"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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Verious
Mage
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Posts: 409
Location: Online
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| Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| RampantCoyote wrote: | | #2 - The rating becomes not just a limiter to what age it is appropriate for, but the rating becomes misused as a filter to judge what audience it is intended for. For an example (in the U.S.) - when you see a "G" rated movie, what do you expect? A kids' movie, right? It might have subject matter entirely intended for adult viewers that simply lacks any objectionable content. But a movie like that would FLOP. So filmmakers feel obligated to throw in more "objectionable" content simply to clue in adult audiences that the film is intended for them. |
I never really stopped to think about it before, but people definately have predefined expectations of movies based on the rating. I can see where a particular rating might adversely affect a game and artificially limit the audience.
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