[Jon Alma]

I've been busy recently implementing the magic system in my game. It's a rune based system where each spell is defined by three runes...

Rune 1 - Determines the 'element' (fire, ice, earth, air and ... eh .. spirit).
Rune 2 - Determines the strength of the spell (with five levels)
Rune 3 - Determines the target for the spell (self, self over a period of time, target, target over a period of time, special)

As an aside the runes used also influence the spell effects (i.e. the textures used by the particle engine, the number of particles and the particle flows).

Anyway this little system gives me up to 125 (5 x 5 x 5) spell combinations. As I see it I have two options for using spells,

Option 1 - The player can create a spell (or have it created by an NPC) in advance (and only once) and then use it instantaneously whenever needed (select a spell and click the mouse each time it should be used).
Option 2 - Each time the player wants to use a spell he/she needs to select the runes. Currently this would be achieved by using the keys 1 to 5 with for example a low strength fireball spell requiring the player to tap 1 1 1 to prepare the spell ready for use (the mouse button launching the spell).

Now weapon combat is in real time with attack or defensive moves requiring just one mouse click. As a result if I base a magic system on option two then magic is going to be slower than weapon combat. However, I don't necessarily see this as a problem as,

- I don't actually see casting spells as being an instantaneous action, but I also see the effects of one spell being stronger than the effects of one weapon strike.
- Combat becomes all about closing with the enemy, while magic with its lower rate of attack possibly becomes a question of standing off from the enemy. Quite handy as I don't have any ranged weapons (at least not yet).
- Selecting the runes as needed means that the player can adapt the spells used to the conditions and the process of changing between spells might actually be more fluid.
- It will be possible to enchant objects or create scrolls so pre-cast spells will be possible to a certain extent.

Getting this to work needs some good user interface design to avoid things getting too cumbersome and there is probably a lot of play balancing to do (not least in trying out different numbers of runes to keep everything managable in real-time for a typical player).

Anyway, that's my take on this - any suggestions or ideas would be welcome before I get too deep into the coding.

Cheers,

Jon.
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Legends from the Lost Realms

[Mattias Gustavsson]

I think that's a quite nice system :-)

But I'm thinking, it's quite clear what I would choose for element and target, that's down to what I want to achieve and the type of enemy I guess, but the strength seems a bit.. well.. I'd probably go for the highest strength all the time :D

I'd probably prefer a system where strength is handled automatically (based on your level or stats or whatever, getting better over time) and instead you replace the strength choice with movement (or whatever) meaning you could have the spell move forcefully straight at the enemy, or circle around him, engulfing him, or hit from straight above etc... Would make it more of an interesting choice, and should work nicely with your particle effects as well :-)
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www.mattiasgustavsson.com - My blog
www.rivtind.com - My Fantasy world and isometric RPG engine
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[js71]

Hmm, reminds me a lot of the spell system in Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem. That game used the same rune system (though with a couple differences; adding more 'power' runes increased the power instead of runes with higher power levels), although the number of runes varied-- throughout the game you got larger and larger 'spell circles,' rings with more slots around the edge for runes. The first one was just 3, then 5, then 7. Casting also required you to remain immobile while the spell was cast; a large spell circle appeared around you on the floor and the runes flashed in around the edge in the order you placed them in. Moving even the slightest bit while this happened ruined the spell.

Of course, that's a bit tedious and slow, especially considering you had to go into the menu and navigate a few tabs to be able to prepare a spell in the first place. There were a few assignable quick-cast buttons, but still. I really like the sound of your second idea-- using number keys in sequence to cast the spell. It sounds quick, intuitive, and easy, yet still just time-consuming enough to create an even balance between weapons and spells. Mattias' idea of replacing power with movement sounds like a good one, though; at the very least, adding the movement concept in. Sounds like a lot of fun. :)

~Josiah

[cowgod]

The rune system was used in Dungeon Master and its sequel, Chaos Strikes Back.

There were a few spells that used 4 runes, but most of its spells used 3. The first two were the same as yours (though with the order switched), and the 3rd/4th runes determined what specifically the spell did. See http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/197 for details.

In the RPG I plan to make next year, I opted to use a system more like in Wizardry 8. You select a spell and then adjust the power level (which changes the spell point cost). In my game, I will allow the player to also change the area of effect: 1 target, 1 group (x3 sp cost), or all enemies/allies (x9/x6 sp cost).

The runes thing is cool, and I considered using it. However, in practice, it's more annoying than anything else. It's like how in Bard's Tale you have to memorize nonsense words to cast spells (e.g. ARFI for arc fire).

Still, it isn't a bad idea. I wouldn't mind playing an occasional game or two that uses runes, but I wouldn't think of it as a big selling point.

Maybe you could have the player select runes to select the spell and then select each target individually. In Lufia 2, you can select targets individually. You would either have to make the effect get divided among all the targets or make the spell cast more when it affects multiple targets.

[Jon Alma]

[BadMrBox]

[cowgod]

Having a spell lab might minimize the tediousness. Using a regular spell system would eliminate the tediousness entirely.

I think the spell lab idea would be pretty cool though, so long as there's some way to see the effects in the lab so that you know what the spells do.

[oenone]

[Captain Vimes]

Hey-hey, this could be interesting! It does need some verrrrry careful handling, though. Otherwise it will just end up as a cumbersome, unusable and boring system that will make your players just rely on physical attacks.

I don't see how pressing three buttons and then clicking would really slow magic down too much, though, so it could very well end up overpowered. I'm assuming that you're using a basic RPG magic point system so that players don't just go about crazily chucking INSTANT DEATH WARP HELL HOLE LUCIFER SUMMONING METEORS everywhere (and if you end up with that spell in the game A) I want to know the rune combination and B) I want to see the particle effect for it). And if you're not then SHAME ON YOU.

I think that instead of combining the three runes of element, strength and target, you should use a combination of BadMrBox's and Mattias's ideas. As the target of the spell should be pretty apparent and/or player-determined, perhaps you should use the first two runes to determine the effect of the spell (e.g. BMB's "fog" effect or fire and fire = fireball) and the third to determine the targeting method.

Oooh! New idea! Don't tell the players what the different combinations do! Leave it a secret to discover later in the game! Imagine the possibilities!

EXAMPLE:
[final boss fight]
PLAYER: All right! I've got this guy down to 2 HP! I win! Heh, you know, I've always wondered what combining the ICE and SPIKE runes does! Let's find out, shall we?
[clicks ICE/SPIKE]
PLAYER: Hmmm, let's have it hit him from above! That could be funny!
[clicks RAIN]
[Icicles rain from the ceiling, impale player and barely scratch the final boss as it was an area-effect spell]
GAME: You lose.
PLAYER: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[fade out, credits roll][/i]
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"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett

[Jon Alma]

[Captain Vimes]

[Nodtveidt]

Some people argue that magic points give too much of an advantage to melee fighters, since magic users become "magic batteries" that are all but useless once the magic points have all been used. The argument does have a lot of merit, but there's really no other reasonable way of handling it.
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[Jon Alma]

[RedSlash]

Magic attacks are ranged and much more powerful compared to melee attacks so it does make sense to limit this power with magic points. Magic users are also expected to carry many MP potions and in some games, magic points regenerate over time, so the magic battery effect isn't so severe.