[grenideer]

I actually agree with almost everything in that article. All your ideas aren't the only way to go, or even set in stone rules, but I have to say that if many current indie rpgs followed these guidelines they would be better off. And that's all I think your article is trying to accomplish. Good job.

I will say after reading discussion in this thread that I don't think Jonas is necessarily telling people to make their rpgs epic, but that if they're supposed to be epic, then you better make them EPIC. IE. a lot of rpgs try to be epic but the atmosphere falls short of being ripped with war.
All this aside I actually think rpgs need to stop trying to be so epic. Interesting storylines do not need to be about saving the world and good vs. evil.
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Diver Down

[JonasKyratzes]

[JonasKyratzes]

[mandrakeooo]

hmm, but adding ren-speak to a game to me would lower the quality of it, wether joe schmoe can read it or not. It makes a game feel amatuerish and hacknayed, almost as if it's a sad attempt to cover up lack of good writing with a gimmick. I have yet to read a good fantasy novel in ren-speak.

And besides, I've played last rose...it's goof, but it's not all too high-brow. I'm pretty sure joe schmoe can play it and not get lost. I mean, come on, it's not like Joyce or Eliot.

[JonasKyratzes]

No, it's not. But a lot of people did in fact have problems with reading it. You should see some of the emails I got ...

But I still think archaic language, or at least some elements of archaic language really make a fantasy game a lot more interesting. No, it's not required, and the game itself would still have to be good, but I think that it's a definite possiblity and some games would greatly profit from it.
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http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net

[Prophet]

Agreed Jonas,
I understand your feelings on a quality vs quantity.

Some people in this world are just far to dumb to live. If that means they can't understand Romeo & Juliet, because the language is too thick, well too bad. They should be in school learning to read again, not playing video games.

I make my living designing custom motorcycles, to me it is a work of art. Now yes.. it is more than true that the majority of Joe Average Yup-Yups, are not going to like my bikes because they don't understand the particular soul behind them. But on the other hand, when such people come into my shop I generally send them right back out the way they came anyway because I don't want them riding my bikes. I'm not going to build them something they do not truly appreciate in the first place, just so they can go and "play biker" on the weekend no matter how much money I lose over it. I'd rather live under a bridge than cheapen the thing I love more than anything else in the world; just so more people will like it that never understood it in the first place, and I can make more money.

You seem to consider yourself an artist when it comes to your creation of games. Just remember: art is for passion, not popularity.

Keep the faith.
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~We are the creatures of modern folklore~

[mandrakeOOO]

yes, but he wasn't suggesting true shakespearean speak, and even if he did WHY SHOULD WE USE IT NOW? Shakespear used the language of his time and bent and shaped it to his will, why not do the same with moden english? Prophet, you should really be a little more open minded and a little less of a dick when it comes to explaining your ideas (Some people are too dumb to live? hrm, sounds to me lik you want join some sort of fascist regime), and really think over what you are saying. I mean, how can it be wrong if someone doesn't like shakespear? should it be wrong if they do?

Reading shakespear is not a question of ignorance or understanding, but enjoying. I know a lot of very intellegent people who think shakespear (after reading his works) was a two bit Christopher Marlowe wannabe hack pop writer. His work (in it's time) according to them, was the basic equivelent of "freinds" on tv today. And I highly doubt anyone will see friends as a work of literary masterpeice.

I really think throwing in archiac language for it's own sake is just a sign of bad writing. You can't convince me otherwise. I have yet to see a game/novel/etc written in the modern era that uses this proses and doesn't read like sewage.

[JonasKyratzes]

[Mandrake]

oops. well then i misunderstood you. sorry.

[Prophet]

mandrake,
calm down, I'm not saying anything like that. I know shakespere was no phenom, I know he's the equivilant of a soap opera. Other than A Winter's Tale, I despise his work personally. I do not believe ones views on classical literature should be a basis of anything, a lot of it is overated. My "sarcastic" comment about "people being too dumb to live" was not a fascist statement based on taste. I was pondering how it is that someone who cannot "read and understand" shakespere, because they are too stupid to understand the language (what's thee mean?), manages to remain alive. IE how do they not get killed at crosswalks with no pictures?
Moreover, that was not the basis of my response to Jonas. I merely was agreeing that just because you will lose popularity is no reason to not do something. Who cares what most people think of what you create? If they like it, fine. If not they can go elsewhere. If that makes me a dick; then I'm a dick. I was raised to believe that I shouldn't base my outlook on my life on other's opinions.
I know you're stressed out lately but you've been getting kinda snappy with everyone; taking stuff way too personal. I like you, you seem like a descent guy from what I've seen. Just ease up a little. Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way.
-prophet out-
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~We are the creatures of modern folklore~

[XMark]

well, this thread looks like it's filled with misunderstandings and general bad feelings, and everything that could be discussed has been so I'm going to use my moderatorial powers for the first time and lock it.
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Mark Hall
Abstract Productions
I PLAYS THE MUSIC THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!