[Z Gravity]

Hmm, I'm totally at a loss about who to ask, but this seems like a good place to try. What we've got on our hands (three people with an idea for an RPG) is a total lack of programming resources. I'm not sure how confident our real coder is, but I for one don't want to try making an engine from scratch. Things started out in RPGMaker 2k before we realized how lousy it was. I've been looking for other options for a while now (I've been occupying myself with graphics for the most part), and things aren't looking promising. Either use a "game maker" sort of system, which tends to be kinda restricting and kinda slow, or go for direct coding, which is a bit over my head.
Multimedia Fusion sounds like some great software, but that'd kinda involve money.... (is it worth it? hmmmm). Verge 2 just crashes my system at the moment. RPG Toolkit looks decent, but seems a bit clunky, and Game Maker isn't really set up for rpg-ish games as much as linear arcade types. Gia Edit sounds perfect for the job, but alas, I find out it's not available yet.
At this point, as you can see, I'm a bit overwhelmed by the options, and hoping someone has some advice. All it really needs at the moment is some sort of tile-based graphics engine (aiming for about 320x240 resolution), and room for a fairly in-depth combat system. The question is whether there are easy ways to put together the code for something like that, or a program that can handle the technical stuff. So what's the usual advice? Assuming you hear this question a lot, so I hope I don't bug anyone too much. :)

[MandrakeIIII]

why not ask someone here to join on as a C/C++ programmer? I've seen your stuff at pixel-zone/pizalation, and know that if you post the art for the game, you could get a hard-core coder in no time flat. If you don't want to ditch the old coder, keep him on as a script programmer/level editor (since that sounds like what he would be used to doing in those game makers/engines).


BTW, sorry about the Gia Edit schnuff. It would be perfect for a lot of people's things, except for the fact that I am so behind schedule with it becuase of moving this site :(. Oh that reminds me: note to self: pm bjorn.

Anyway, you might want to try Fury or Sphere if all else fails.

[white_door]

well if you want I might be able to help you out with your problem...

I have been working on a rpg project for sometime now, however me and the other programmer in this have found a major problem with finding content. (art) If you are interested, email me at white_door@dread.nl and we could discuss if our engine would suit you. I would be more than will to recode parts of the engine to fit in with what you want, or if you want we could just give you the source code and you could make any changes you like.

Our project isn't getting anywhere fast, and while we haven't given up yet, it would be nice to know that all our work wasn't going to waste.

The engine has been tested at both 640x480 and 320x240 and it works fine in either, it does work better in 16 bit color (since it was originally designed for this) however we have found its flexible enough for either, it has a full scripting engine, a tile engine with map editor, npcs that can move around, and a skinable dialog system.

[DarkDread]

Well, the other option... if you just can't seem to find a coder for a while... rather than putting the whole project on hold, learn a little bit of C/C++ here and there. Take your time, and learn just a little bit... basically, what you need to know to, say, make a basic tile engine. This way, instead of the project just waiting for a coder, you'll be able to at least move towards your goal of having code done for it... and at the very least, once you find a coder, there might already be some basic code to work with (hey, less work is good, heh)... and, you'll have learned a bit yourself... who knows, you might end up enjoying it.

That's actually pretty much the way I started coding... I had some ideas, could do some passable graphics... and wanted to make my own game... so, I looked for someone to code it... didn't find anyone (this was back before the internet was used by, well, almost anyone, heh)... so decided to give it a shot on my own... ended up having fun doing it, so hey... worked for me.
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"Goth is a way for ugly people to be interesting."

[Z Gravity]

Hmm, at the moment Sphere is looking pretty interesting, so I'm gonna see how Steve feels about Javascript. Still, a custom-built engine is gonna be a lot more useful in the long run. I'm already finding things I'll probably have to work around eventually.
Anyway, our current programmer is without internet access for the time being. But White_Door, I could probably describe what we need out of the engine pretty well. Having the original code n' stuff would be pretty handy, although it could get messy. It's definately something for us to consider.

It kinda bugs me that if we'd just coded everything from scratch right from the beginning we'd probably have a decent engine up and running by now..... It's given me time to get pretty good at pixel art though.

[janus]

Sphere is an excellent engine - and the fact that it's open source (GPL) means you can alter it and tweak it to your heart's content, getting the power of a custom built engine without the huge investment of time and resources. I strongly suggest you look into it.

[golrien]

Heh, I'm pretty much free as a coder at the moment (I do have the odd project, but nothing I'm desperate to finish) and I could probably code you up a scrolling engine with my eyes closed (adding scripting, a decent set of tools and a bit of stability to the code might require effort, however :)

I can't promise anything (sure sign of experience, heh) but if you drop me an email (golrien at hybd.net) or ICQ/AIM/PM me with a basic idea of what you want (I've got a reasonable set of drawing tools and junk already coded if you're not feeling attached to a particular paint program, heh.. and I'd need input on how you'd like the scripting language, seeing as I've never done a serious one before) and an outline of the story/stuff I might be able to get on with it. Having seen some of your stuff at Pixelation, I don't need any proof you're a good artist :)

On another side, I've heard good things about RPG Toolkit, in that it's fairly powerful (but requires a bit of coding to get things going) and junk... still, I'd prefer you to have a proper engine on principle :)

[manmanmandrake]

i would suggest going with white_door or golrien, both excellent coders. white_door i've personally worked with, and can highly recommend him and his engine, it's nice neat and flexible, brilliant in fact. one of the greatest coders i've ever worked with.

[Quickbeam]

Hey guys, I haven't posted here before, but you might know me (might being the key word) from Pixelation.

Z, I'm in the exact same boat as you. I used to use rm2k a few years back, but since I quit using it I've just been kinda floating around looking at upcoming RPG makers and dabbling in a few programming languages. Nothing much has come of it though. I was waiting for this one called RPG Development Studio (http://www.crypticdesigns.com) but it's had lots of problems and I highly doubt it'll be done within the next year or two.

There's two games I've been planning for a while now. I've just been editing the settings and fleshing out the characters (although I just recently changed one of the games quite drastically, so quite a bit of my character work went down the drain) and trying to write a bit of the storylines here, but lately I've kinda gotten the feeling they're never going to materialize due to my lack of programming knowledge or a coder who knows what he's doing (because I sure as hell don't). That makes Quickbeam sad. Heh.

I've never worked with a coder, and I don't know how it'd work for me. See, I've got all these ideas of how I want these games to be, and even though I can't code, I'd definitely NEED to have a hand in map design, scripting, and that kind of stuff. I'm kind of a perfectionist. I can see programmers hating me for that, heh.

So yeah, I'm completely at a loss. I'm taking a C++ class at school right now, but it's pretty basic stuff (all we've done so far is basic math problems with different types of loops and we're doing functions now). Lord Helmut suggested I learn VB and directx. I really have no clue where to start.

Don't mean to hijack your thread Z, I was just looking around, and it seems your problem is pretty well the same as mine.

[mandrakeaaa]

compromise. yes, the magical word.

every programmer wants an artist to do his game. every artist seems to want a programmer to do his game. anyone ever thought of working out a deal? a sort of i scratch your back, your scratch mine kind of deal?

either way, some people are not programmers. some people will not enjoy it. some people are not artists. this is why we should help each other out.

but remember, just because you are a good artist, doesn't mewan you know what's best or what will work when.

[DrunkenCoder]

actually mandrake has a very valid point, even if you artist guys could find a decent coder (or even an excelent one like mandrake) how exactly would that help things? you see, it's really hard to sell the "bust your ass to make my dream come true" concept and also you all start out by pointing out that a albeit old but still *commercial* and widely used product with proper funding and organization is quite lame and you need more horsepower for your game. Now sure it's no problem beating most of the RPG makers on some of the areas, and actually do it in what could be seen as an sensible timeframe, but the problem is lack of defenition, what is it that you want that <insert fav scapgoat here> can't do or does badly? what are you aiming for? what is your vision?

as for us coders maybe we should take one step back and think about what we have to offer the artisty guys without selling our souls or trying to trap their creative spirits in jar...

really I don't know but it seems like posts like "hey I have a great game idea now I only need someone to create the game for me" just gets more and more frequent on diffrent boards.

this isn't to flame anyone, maybe I shoudn't even say anything with my splendid release record of 0 complete games and oh... what? a gazzilion tilescrolling halfbaked engines... but both coders and artist must start posting something relevant in post like theese if there is ever going to come anything concrete out of them.
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If there's life after death there is no death, if there's no death we never live. | ENTP

[Mandrake]

"or trying to trap their creative spirits in jar"

i love that line. brilliant.

anyway, thanks dandelion....but i'm a decent coder, not a great one. Well, enough modesty for now...you put it perfectly. I mena, pixelation's crowd is cynical and hates it when programmers come by saying "hey i need an artist to do my game", programmers are cynical for the same thing for the same reason. what we need is an understanding. everyone wants x person to do the work for him, and do everything he asks. one thing i learned working on the changeling, is that even though the work contains a main vision (that of the orignial story and etc i designed), i love hearing input form the group.

From everyone. For example, me and zog just recently hammered out a diffren combat system for the Changeling then the original one i was going to do. Most of the concepts where zog's, tweaked a bit here and there by some thoughts from me. Xmark and me have brainstormed on the plot, locrian has helped out here and there with some ideas.

Everyone, IMHO has a say in the group on what should happen to the game. Now, this doesn't mean everyone's ideas are valid either. A good "leader" when it comes to game design knows what works with the vision (the basic idea behind it all) and what works against it.

[Quickbeam]

See, my problem is that most times I've collaborated on a project, the other people have all been suggesting ridiculous immature ideas, when I'm shooting for something serious. I would love to work with a coder who understood the kind of world/atmosphere/gameplay that I was going for. I mean, I would be more than willing to take suggestions for how things could work and fit together and stuff, and what might make it BETTER. But I dislike it when people tell you to change entire things to make them happy. Unless its a good change. But in most cases it seems not to be.

And then there's having to rely on people you dont actually know. One time, I had this really kickass anime artist doing character art for a game. She was very enthusiastic. For three days. She whipped out 2 kickass pieces of art in that time. Then she blocked me on msn because she was bored of it.

So, yeah, I'm a little hesitant about the whole team thing because of a few experiences I've had. I'm sure if I was working with someone who was actually competent and reliable, I'd have a blast with it. But people like that who arent already busy with something are hard to come by.

[mandrake_yo]

well there are two coders who responded in this thread, rready and willing, and both EXCELLENT coders to boot. take it from me, they are good and reliable.

[Modanung]

I'm mostly an artist, no programmer.
Sometimes I want to be able to program, but then I realise what I have to do to be able to do such a thing. I can do a litle QB45, but that doesn't go any further then PRINT, INPUT, IF, THEN, ELSE, INKEY$, and drawing a line. No idea how to work with subs.

Jep, I'm surely an artist