[RampantCoyote]

The IGF (Independent Games Festival) submissions opened *today* - October 18th is the deadline for the general competition, and November 1st is the deadline for student submissions.

Not sure I'm so keen on the changes to the competition this year... but if you are doing a game for mobile devices (iPhone, iPad anybody) or something more "experimental," it may be your bag:

2010 IGF Info
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[tcaudilllg]

[RampantCoyote]

Well, they gotta promote it somehow. Yeah, there are a lot of people who have participated and not won (and many who have won, too) who aren't too keen about the methodology use to pick winners. Starting last year they tried to be more open about the judging, because it seems like the winners each year are a little... confusing.

And last year they definitely seemed to be biased in favor of the weird and experimental. But Andy Schatz's Monaco won the overall competition last year, and based on what I have seen of it, it seemed pretty worthy.

I'd have gone with AaaaAaaaAaaaaAaaa! - A Reckless Disregard for Gravity instead, but that's because I'd actually played it (and still haven't played Monaco - just watched vids of it).

Oh, here's a video of AaaaAaaaaAaaaa! (I especially like his messages at the end).

And one of Monaco. (I understand he's smoothed out the line-of-vision / light stuff since then).
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[Rainer Deyke]

I've always found this sort of competition to be antithetical to the indie spirit. I'm no more interested in competing for the favor of a panel of judges than I am in competing for the favor of the mainstream gaming press. If I was looking for mainstream popularity, I'd be working in the mainstream game industry.

[tcaudilllg]

Yeah it seems to me like an Academy Awards kinda thing where the best picture is one that isn't advertised, is barely shown... you get the picture. That said, yeah we need more games that emphasize stealing. :P I never understood what the thrill was with playing a game in which the point was to break the law. I mean someone must be dealing with some serious emotional repression issues to enjoy imagining themselves in that environment.

[RampantCoyote]

Yeah, all those fans of Robin Hood stories & games were such creeps... ;)
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[tcaudilllg]

Now the idea of an "American Idol" for game developers isn't bad, but that's what it should be: it should be something everybody is involved with and allowed to vote in. I like the way we do it at RPGDX, but I just wish there were more people involved.

This site has an openness issue -- it feels like a clique.

[RampantCoyote]

This contest also comes with non-insignificant cash prizes and a lot of media attention (relatively speaking). So if you are serious about your craft, it's worth at least considering.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[PsySal]

Hey I'm kind of new around here but thought I would jump in anyhow...

Anyways the way I see it, the IGF isn't really antithetical to the indie spirit. I think you can want to make games in an independent way but still want to have some mainstream appeal, for instance. I think it's nice that there is a higher-profile award ceremony for indies, and it's still small enough that if you make something really awesome you might still get rewarded.

I think the bigger question than appeal is like, funding. What's the cutoff line for something to be "indie"?

[tcaudilllg]

Indie is a broad term. RC and Malignus tend to see it differently, I think, than most of the people on this site. See on RPGDX, "indie" means "QB game" or "Allegro DOS game". Or something fundamentally similar. It means developing with free, usually open source tools, and especially in-house tools. It also means distributing the game freely (usually), and with mostly minimal effort. The idea is not to create a fun game, but to enjoy creating the game itself.

To RC and Malignus, it's more of a commercial rebellion, particularly against organized corporate interests. Effectively, sole proprietorships vs growth-oriented corporate entities. The sole proprietorships are driven by independence, while the corporations are driven by profit motive. A sole proprietor can break just above even and make a living if they've appropriated their own salary high enough. Corporations are driven by share holder sentiments, which in turn forces them to run their companies and produce products that they aren't necessarily proud of.

Still I can't speak for RC or Malignus so let's hear what they have to add. :)

[Mattias Gustavsson]

I would guess that most people here see it more like RC and Malignus - I certainly do. I didn't recognise myself in your description at all...

(I don't call myself "indie" by the way - I just see myself as a "hobbyist")
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[Malignus]

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=7217.msg230088#msg230088

[Jinroh]

[RampantCoyote]

LOL - What Malignus said. :)

And, as tcaudilllg said, it's a very broad term. To me, indie = hobbyist, commercially-minded self-funded studio, and lots out outliers and areas in-between. Self-funding isn't required, either --- there's even a new Indie Game Fund out there BY indie game developers to invest in other indie game developers.

As a veteran of the mainstream game development industry, I was indoctrinated early in how games are (supposed to be) made. The System was already well in place when I started my career. It sucked, because generally speaking the games that made or how they were made were being dictated not by the guys who loved games and who had great ideas, but by various stakeholders who often weren't even gamers themselves.

IMO, the indie movement and new means of distribution is a great democratization of game development, bypassing The System so that game devs can get their games into the hands of players without having to win the approval of gatekeepers (meaning mainstream publishers, generally). And that's really what the indie spirit is about.

I don't buy into the poor starving tortured artist B.S., or drink Open Source Kool-Aid. If you make free games with O.S. tools only that are just for you and a few enthusiastic friends, cool. If you are making games commercially as an indie and making serious bucks at it, and even getting your games (LATER) sold at Wal*Mart, cool. It's all good. It's a big tent, as far as I am concerned,

I really, REALLY don't want to get into the pissing contests about who is more indie than whom. Although it does lead to some funny jokes... like this one:

"IF YOU'RE NOT INDIE, F*** YOU!"

And this one:

SNOBCON 2010

So to answer PsySal's question: That's been an issue before. One year a game called "Savage" won the IGF, and it had obtained about $1.5 million in (non-publisher) funding. Technically, it was indie, but it did raise a lot of concern over the fairness of comparing shoestring-budget solo projects with what was in practice little different from a low-to-medium budget mainstream studio.

That's the sort of thing that causes some of the "more indie than thou" arguments. And yeah, it's not clear. So I just look at those who are working within The System I am familiar with on the one end, and figure indie is everyone else, and we can break things into subgroups later. But for me, all the hows and whys and specifications and limitations are meaningless.

For me, it's all about people making and playing cool games.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz

[RampantCoyote]

@Mattias - I don't really differentiate between a hobbyist and an indie, other than *maybe* actually finishing and releasing a game to the public. But even that is really, REALLY fuzzy.

So what about these contests on RPGDX? Do those count as finished and released? Meh, why not? If the developer wants to count 'em. I've just learned to live with the fuzz.
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Tales of the Rampant Coyote - Old-School Game Developer talks Indie Games, RPGs, and the Games Biz