[codeugly]

I'm sitting here playing with a stats engine and wondering to myself, which seems more fun, a continual gathering of xp into this single huge number, or wrapping experience back around to 0 per level.

Quite a few of the strategy rpgs, and technically Oblivion seem to make use of the latter. Where traditional games tend to run the number up. And it seems most PnP rpgs run the numbers up as well. I have also seen RPG's where it's 100 per level, and experience seems calculated by the difficulty of the fight.

I am pretty much a very stat oriented player, and was just wondering what everyone seemed to prefer and why.
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[Malignus]

Most strategy RPGs use the get-to-100 wrap-around number system, I think, because there are so damn many characters to keep track of. It's way easier to just whip through them and see 40, 98, 13, 72, etc. than to go through and see 1325, 2090, 5633 and 3125, each with different goalposts.

Most RPGs with relatively quick leveling use this system as well. In Dubloon, for instance, you level up super-fast--the wrap-around system works well for this.

The only advantage to using the bigger numbers that I can think of is a (potentially) enhanced sense on the part of the player of having traveled far and grown a lot more powerful.

[Rainer Deyke]

Which feels like more of an accomplishment, increasing experience from 0 to 100 or increasing experience from 10000 to 10100? Which feels more significant, gaining 10 experience when you have 20 and your goal is 100, or gaining 10 experience when you have 10020 and your goal is 10100? Which better shows you how close you are to gaining a level, 20/100 or 10020/10100?

I prefer systems that reset to 0.

[Mattias Gustavsson]

I don't really have anything to offer regarding the huge number vs wrap around issue - but when it comes to "experience" as such, I never really got into the kind of system of having just one overall experience level that increase whatever you do. This is probably because back when I played tabletop RPGs, I didn't play Dungeons and Dragons with their D20 system, but swedish RPG's based on Chaosiums D100 system (think Runequest). And in those games, you got a kind of experience points every time you successfully used a skill, but they were tied to that specific skill. And after you'd finished a quest and your character had an extended period of rest, those experience points was used to raise the value for the particular skill in question (and same things for your basic attributes like strength, dexterity etc).

This meant that you could only raise a skill/attribute by repeatedly making use of that particular skill/attribute, and also that you didn't "level up" during a quest - only in the resting periods between quests.

It made for an overall slower pace of "levelling up" (though there were no levels as such, just the individual values), and as it got harder and harder to increase a value the higher it was (meaning you'd need more experience points for that value in order to increase it the higher it got), it also meant that you didn't get those huge variations between characters - sort of like a natural cap.

I really liked that system, but I don't know how common the use of it is in computer RPGs - but I intend to use something very much like it in my game Thieves and Warriors
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[codeugly]

I think I am inclined to agree with you guys. I was leaning fairly hard toward big numbers, then toward a hybrid which just seems to complicate things unnecessarily(got it half developed before I got lost in the numbers), and I was afraid most hardcore players would shun the 100 reset idea. But 100 reset seems like it would be easier to achieve game balance? Just put experience modifiers on level differentiation.

In an RPG, I really love the stats, and for once I want to get them right. And Mattias, that sounds like a very interesting RPG. I really enjoyed the ROA ruleset, and when I was single without kids I reveled in the advanced ruleset spending hours modifying my characters, Oh if I only had the time now.
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[Malignus]

All attacks in TSoG level up individually based on use, using a 100-point wrap-around system. :)

[white_door]

Many pnp rpgs I've played lately use experience as a sort of currency. You acquire it through time spend playing, heroic acts, and good roleplay. You may spend it purchasing new abilities or stats you are eligible for. (normally based gm discretion) Basically you allowed to select any skill or stat you have trained or used a lot. Our GM likes to joke "Achievement Unlocked: you can now buy a new dot in this stat." We, of course, still have to have enough XP for it.

The only issue really is you are no longer able to track your 'level'. Although levels are dumb.... Players like the feeling of making progress through being handed a string of increasingly higher arbitrary numbers. This is the same reason that most rpg count xp upwards.

[codeugly]

@malignus
TSoG is a nice game. FFT on the PS really got me hooked on such games.
I have a love hate relation with individual expience gains. Games like FFT seem to have it well balanced out, but games like Luminous Arc 2 really leave gaps in the party as certain feats aren't worth much.

@white_door
"One new dot for me please"
I remember DW Bradley doing a hybrid of this system in Dungeon Lords. It was quite enjoyable, and I remember really liking how often I got to edit stats.

I am getting closer to having my stats system finished, and I think I am going to incorporate some of both of these ideas. I had an idea last year that is slowly becoming a mature balanced system. I think individualized leveling (despite my love hate) and a simplified points spending is one of the final pieces of the puzzle. I hope to post it soon.
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[tcaudilllg]

Best to ignore hard core purists. They aren't a significant piece of the market.

Unless you want to make a separate exp building option just for them, but even that probably won't satisfy most of them.

[Mattias Gustavsson]

[Rainer Deyke]

Best to write the game you want to write without worrying too much about the audience. There are all kinds of different people with all kinds of different tastes. If you write what you like, you will appeal to at least one taste: your own. If you write to appeal to an audience, then there's a very real risk that you will fail to appeal to any taste at all.

[codeugly]

I can see the wisdom in targeting the audience, and satisfying myself. Today I would say I am trying to satisfy myself, but this project started as a shoot the gap between hardcore and main stream. So whatever I say today is a lie tomorrow.

I also see this economy hurting quite a few targets, and an Indie almost needs to innovate or risk being invisible. Of course it's a gamble no matter how you look at it.

I am slowly working on a live stats demo, and it should be done next weekend. Then I might write a little more on the story, though the format may change to less detailed. The storylining was simply a device to give me something fun to do during short periods of frustration and burn out, and so far has really worked in motivating me forward.
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