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valderman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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 Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:10 pm Post subject: Evangelion > you! |
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I just thought I should let everyone know that my Neon Genesis Evangelion DVD box just arrived...and it kicks major ass! Honestly, this is the best TV-show/movie ever, all categories!
...and since an announcement like this requires some kind of image:
Go Asuka! ^___^
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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
Location: Location:
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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The ending sucks. Watch Escaflowne. (I agree the series in a whole is quite entertaining though)
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valderman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2002
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Haven't seen the ending yet, I'm at the beginning of disc four (episode 12). Will be reaching the ending in ~two weeks, since I'll save it for as long as possibly by only watching one episode per day.
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Sirocco
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Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, absolutely do NOT watch the final two episodes. They ruin the entire series... and that's almost an understatement. Instead, watch Death and Rebirth / End of Evangelion instead.
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white_door
Icemonkey
Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 243
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:29 am Post subject: |
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yeah they are labeled an 'alternative ending' so they are not required viewing, but that said... after such a good series I expected more quality. I haven't wanted to watch any anime since seeing the those last two episodes...
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ThousandKnives
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 147
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 8:46 am Post subject: |
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hmm, funny, i dont seem to remember anything about the last episodes ruining that series. In fact, I remember enjoying them more than many of the earlier episodes. It has been 4-5 years though. As I recall they piddle around with ideas of existentialism and causation in a very entertaining way. Maybe thats my bias though since I majored in philosophy. Not a fan of giatn robo series, but a big fan of philosophically minded entertainment- so the only real reason I enjoyed the series to begin with is what takes center stage at the end. Yay for me, not for others though, or so it seems.
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Adam
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Joined: 30 Dec 2002
Posts: 416
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Evangelion > you! |
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| Valderman wrote: |
Go Asuka! ^___^ |
cosplay scares me on so many levels
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Ironshanks
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Posts: 134
Location: Shiner's Peak
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| Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2003 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| adam wrote: | | cosplay scares me on so many levels |
Name three :)
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That's not a broken link, it's a PICTURE of a broken link. It's really very conceptual.
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Sirocco
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Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:23 am Post subject: |
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WARNING!!!! SPOILER ALERT!!!
Do not read unless you want to know something important about the end of the series..........
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As I recall they piddle around with ideas of existentialism and causation in a very entertaining way. Maybe thats my bias though since I majored in philosophy
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...and had both the production value and coherence of a nickel comic book.
For a series with such well-defined and controlled progression, the final two episodes were more of an insult than anything else. Imagine taking a wonderful portrait... say Rembrandt's self-portrait, and finishing it with a crayon, leaving the entire mouth distorted and tacky, as though a five year old's sketch were substituted for the mouth.
Basically, the director (Hideaki Anno) publicly admitted the final two episodes were an unintentional cop out. Gainax's funding was pulled *before* the final two episodes were started, and they whipped up what they could with the little funding that remained.
Translation from Evangelion Red Cross Book:
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At the last episode of the TV series, "Sekai no Chuushin de
AI wo yondake mono", it became an odd-looking episode which
depicted only the internal world of the hero Shinji Ikari. Although
that was fulfilling for the main theme, the drama of the characters
and further development of the Eva world were left unfinished as
the story ended.
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The director also publicly admitted that he was forced to abandon the development of the series' world and characters in order to concentrate on Shinji -- his team pretty much took a single idea and ran out in the weeds with it. Although it's mildly interesting to see what happens inside Shinji's mind as he copes with the realization that he's murdered Kaworu, the rest of the series' elements are left to atrophy; leading to what many feel is a dissatisfying ending. You'll note that the vast majority of content inside episode 25+26 is still shots from around Japan, digitally filtered to better match the few (largely static) cels running through the episodes. It's a helluva lot cheaper to run around town with a camera than it is to properly produce animation ;)
After overwhelming public pressure, and a fresh infusion of cash, Gainax set out to amend the damage from the final two episodes. This is where we get "Death and Rebirth"... which didn't even begin to make our collective knees weak, and "End of Evangelion"... which brought the series to a stunning (and arguably appropriate) end.
edit: Got movie titles backwards. Whoops.
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ThousandKnives
Wandering Minstrel
Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 147
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 6:38 am Post subject: |
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Those points are well taken, but honestly, Evangelion makes quite a habit of recycling shots and using limited movment. The entire series is essentially a vocal drama with the accompanying visuals used most often just to set the scene. You could almost as well listen to (err read the subtitles while listening to) the series as you could "watch" it, so I don't really see this disjunction. The kinds of media change, sure. But the realm of the story also changes outside of any physical location, so I thought the use of the filtered photographs (which I remember quite well) was very appropriate.
I'm also not sure what you mean about well-controlled progression either, it had a tendancy to stall and fast-forward episode to episode. I remember a series of episodes being light, almost comical angel-fighting fluff that was highly episodic, bracketed on either end with heavy, slow multi-parted dramas. Which is fine, I mean it was a TV show and not an OVA so certain things had to be done differently, but let's not overlook this fact for the sake of the argument that the last 2 episodes are a travesty. I don't think they are.
The directors only qualms (in that quote) are that the series couldnt keep going, which may be true. But that doesnt say anything about the result of the final episodes- except to say that it is a shame that they are indeed the FINAL episodes.
And there is no sense in looking to the director or creator of ANY work for an answer to the question "is this any good?" They are the LEAST likely to know the answer. You gotta come to conclusions like that on your own.
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Sirocco
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Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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You gotta come to conclusions like that on your own.
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I did; and it sucks ass. Apparently, the director agrees with me :)
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Which is fine, I mean it was a TV show and not an OVA so certain things had to be done differently, but let's not overlook this fact for the sake of the argument that the last 2 episodes are a travesty. I don't think they are.
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Although there are several episodes that deviate from the series' strict formula of: a) Show character development + progression, b) divulge some backstory, c) angel attack, the final two episodes totally break the series' continuity. At this point, everything is dropped to focus on Shinji, which essentially leaves the other protagonists out in the cold. All questions that do not pertain directly to Shinji are blatantly and completely ignored. To take such pains to develop the assisting protagonists' characters, and that of the world itself, only to leave it unconcluded, is a travesty.
There's more to the series than just Shinji; and there are far too many multi-dimensional characters to simply dismiss.
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valderman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Finished watching today, and I'm not sure about how much I like the ending...The only thing I know for sure is that I'm confused. What exactly happened outside Shinji's mind? Did giant space squids come to exterminate the human race? Did the Instrumentality project merge the minds of everyone and create some kind of God out of the common consciousness? I guess it's pretty open to interpretation...
Anyway, on one hand, the philosophical ending was interesting. On the other hand, it simply cut off the series without really concluding it. I'd say it would have been pretty good as a regular episode, but as an ending it sucks.
Will be watching End of Evangelion later tonight, and if that movie doesn't conclude the series properly, I'm going to hurt someone.
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Ninkazu
Demon Hunter
Joined: 08 Aug 2002
Posts: 945
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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get those boxing gloves ready.
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valderman
Mage
Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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Decided to save End of Eva for tomorrow...seeing as most people I've talked to says End of Eva is a good ending, it can't be that terrible, now can it? Oh well, I'll see for myself tomorrow night...I can't wait!
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valderman
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Joined: 29 Aug 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
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| Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I finished end of Eva minutes ago...and just had to write down my thoughts about it.
It was a good movie...in fact great, and as an ending...it was fairly good as well.
The last scene, especially with Asuka being alive and delivering her final line - "disgusting" left me with both a depression AND a warm feeling of "everything's fine, don't worry".
Admittedly, it could have been done a lot better,perhaps a less abstract and more barren landscape in the end, but I guess this fits more in with the philosophical theme.
All in all, kickass ending of kickass anime. I was on the brink of crying more times than I can count during both.
OK, I'll quit my rambling now and go read some humorous Eva fanfic. Sorry for exposing you to my obsession.
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