[js71]

Okay... I'm real pissed now.
No completed projects under my belt at all. Never finished an rpg or game in my life. No, I'm not depressed. Just really frickin' peeved. Just now, on MSN, my coder for Worlds Beyond apparently dropped out. TheRabidWombat, if you're reading this...........
Anyway... I've ALWAYS wondered, how the fuck do these coders ever... Well... Code?! Oh, I've tried. I've tried numerous times... I tried quickbasic, the simplest of languages... I don't know how anyone can code in any language at all, honestly. It's just miserable, trying at all to code-- Too many things to remember, too many lines to read through-- I guess it just really pisses me off that I've been unable to succeed at anything in the past, even coding. And now that so many of WB's past coders have slowly dropped away... I really don't know how all these people have even managed to put together even a simple tech demo, when I look at the list of 114 traditional rpgs in the archive, complete or not... Just... HOW do you people do it? Honestly, how?
What's your secret...?

[Ninkazu]

It's like a foreign language to me, along with a problem-solving adventure. I'm very good with foreign languages (passed Spanish I with a 96 without thinking at all... Japanese I with a 100.1 without opening my eyes, and Japanese II with a 99 without lifting a finger), but programming is just like giving the computer a set of simple instructions in shorthand English. Just think of how you want to solve a problem in the most simple and logical way, and you'll be fine.

Also, I'm planning on making a very very good engine for killergoat's and rydefly's new projects, so I'll let you use it as well (no modification to code will be necessary. Once it's done, a game can be made on the fly without coding one line)

[Sirocco]

I enjoy coding so much it doesn't phase me in the least to spend an entire day in front of the compiler; although it certainly helps that I no longer spend hours trying to figure out what the hell I'm doing :)

.

[js71]

Yes, well... You're crazy, sirocco, heh.
I can only dream of actually enjoying coding.

[LeoDraco]

Coding doesn't really have anything at all to do with a language; it's all about problem solving. Which is not to say that you can code without any knowledge of any language you attempt. Once you know how to use certain language constructs that are fairly common between languages (such as classes/objects, for instance), and have a good understanding of a variety of data structures and algorithms, coding comes easy. Language is just syntax and semantics; a coder who has his problem solving down pat can usually pick up a language in under a week. (I picked up Python in two days a few quarters ago.)

It helps to start with a simple to learn, yet robust to use, language as a place to begin with. Quickbasic really isn't that language. (Not to start any holy-wars, or anything, but QB isn't an exemplar of a good language.) I would personally suggest either Python or PHP as a good first language, as both are object oriented. (Although, to do anything graphical in PHP, you'll have to be either running it from the command line on your box, or using it through a HTML interface, which can be kind of nasty for dynamic things. It can be done, though.) Python is real sexy, powerful, and has a graphical library (so you could code a game in it, if you wanted to).

But really: it comes down to your problem solving skills, and those are developed as you do two things: (1) code more, and (2) expand your knowledge of both common language constructs and data structures. When you have a good understanding of how to put language constructs together, or how to put data structures together, coding comes easier (as you're not attempting to bash your head against the wall because you don't know what to do).

If nothing else, college level programming courses offer a wide-range of programs that you can write, which would help broaden your knowledge base. So, if you're planning on going to college with programming in mind, there's always that. If not, an entry level CS course would be something interesting to take. On the other hand, if you're a few years away from college, and want to have projects to work on now, I would suggest practicing at TopCoder; you don't even have to compete there. (They have a practice room with old competition prompts that you could code off of.) As with anything else in life, practice makes perfect.
_________________
"...LeoDraco is a pompus git..." -- Mandrake

[Sirocco]

Instead of starting up large projects, take on small experiments. For example, if you've been interested in doign some 2D effects... maybe some plasma, motion trails, or a rotating scrolly, write a small example program to teach yourself these concepts.

Then, once you've done that, take a day to expand on the concepts you've learned. So I can generate plasma, can I use this as a menu overlay at 10% strength? Motion trails are good, but can I track everything quickly in real-time so it becomes motion blur? A rotating scrolly is neat, but what happens if I add some sin/cos effects to the letter offsets? What if I merge all three effects?

This way, you can learn valuable problem solving techniques, improve your programming skills, and still ENJOY what you're doing. 2D effects may not be your thing; some people prefer 3D, or even data organization. Just find something you're fascinated by, and slowly embrace it.

I probably have written well over a hundred separate test programs over the years, just kicking around theories and new ideas. It's what's kept me going through the days and nights.

.

[Mandrake]

and those experiments also make for some funky ass spell effects. Hey Sirocco- in the changeling I'm doing a water effect by applying a cos/sin watery-ripple kind of thing to a patterned texture. It looks kinda like the one in FB, is that how you do it?
_________________
"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark

http://pauljessup.com

[js71]

Hmm, well... C++ wouldn't really be the best place to start, would it? I mean, I spent enough time just getting devc++ installed, and I still can't get allegro working with it...

[Mandrake]

try Python and Pygame.
_________________
"Well, last time I flicked on a lighter, I'm pretty sure I didn't create a black hole."-
Xmark

http://pauljessup.com

[supergoat]

Or do what I did, quit coding and start drawing. :P

No really, a game is a massive undertaking. It's really quite sobering when you look at it all at once, but the way I finish projects is just to examine them one small part at a time, get those done, and THEN worry about something else. I find it greatly improved the quality of my code, too.

Also, Ninkazu nailed it. Coding's an abstract process, like trying to internalize a foreign language.

Which language you start with has a great impact on the kind of coder you "grow up" to be. I started with BASIC and regret it. I still have a lot of nasty habits (when I still actually program) that I learned because of BASIC's messed up conventions and absurd limitations.. it took me about two years to get over that enough to even use languages like c++ to their fullest. The learning curve is a good deal steeper for people starting in c++, but you'll be better off in the long run.

[DarkDread]

...or you can do what I did, and say "to hell with coding", and start concentrating on music, instead... which, I see, is something you're doing, anyway... heck, at this point, I've got a full length for one project coming out on one lable, a split 3" cd for another project coming out on another label, and in a month or two, a debut EP from yet another project, on yet another label... and I couldn't be happier. Making music, is so much more fun than coding, for me... might be the same for you... perhaps coding isn't your thing... so, what I'm saying is, try a few different things, until you eventually find your niche, heh. :)
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"Goth is a way for ugly people to be interesting."

[js71]

I dunno man... I get more satisfaction just working on a game than making music, no matter how crappy the game... But the fact that I've never finished anything seriously bugs me.
Well anyway it turns out there was a misunderstanding; my coder didn't leave after all. Though I'm not sure how comfortable I'll be with letting someone else do the coding for much longer, but I can't code myself, so... Meh.
Maybe I'll just stick to writing if this project ever gets finished.
(Oh, by the way... Forgot to mention Key is not abandoned, the team is still working steadily on that. Just so you know I didn't drop my biggest project...)

[Ninkazu]

[js71]

Heh, heh.
We're like the-brothers-don't-ever-finish-anything-but-like-what-we-do or something.

[Sirocco]